Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S269469AbUICArB (ORCPT ); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 20:47:01 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S269455AbUICAnk (ORCPT ); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 20:43:40 -0400 Received: from 69-18-3-179.lisco.net ([69.18.3.179]:57014 "EHLO slaphack.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S269465AbUICAlV (ORCPT ); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 20:41:21 -0400 Message-ID: <4137BDA7.4040304@slaphack.com> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 19:41:11 -0500 From: David Masover User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.3 (X11/20040813) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Martin J. Bligh" CC: Hans Reiser , Linus Torvalds , Jamie Lokier , Horst von Brand , Adrian Bunk , viro@parcelfarce.linux.theplanet.co.uk, Christoph Hellwig , linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Alexander Lyamin aka FLX , ReiserFS List Subject: Re: The argument for fs assistance in handling archives References: <20040826150202.GE5733@mail.shareable.org> <200408282314.i7SNErYv003270@localhost.localdomain> <20040901200806.GC31934@mail.shareable.org> <20040902002431.GN31934@mail.shareable.org> <413694E6.7010606@slaphack.com> <4136A14E.9010303@slaphack.com> <4136C876.5010806@namesys.com> <4136E0B6.4000705@namesys.com> <14260000.1094149320@flay> In-Reply-To: <14260000.1094149320@flay> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.85.0.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 2232 Lines: 56 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Martin J. Bligh wrote: |>For 30 years nothing much has happened in Unix filesystem semantics |>because of sheer cowardice | | | Or because it works fine, and isn't broken. Ok, maybe it wasn't cowardice. Maybe it was laziness. Because cowardice tells me that data corruption is bad. Data corruption kills kittens. End data corruption now! Unfortunately, the only way to allow files to survive a crash is to implement transactions. The simplest way is to do it in the filesystem and to export an interface to userland. This is what Hans is doing, though AFAIK it's not done yet. Laziness tells me that I should just use Windows anyway, because "it works". Switching to Linux requires training, porting apps requires work, and using Linux instead of Windows is a hell of a lot more work than just patching programs to do something like + start_transaction() ~ write() ~ blah() ~ write() + end_transaction() How'd you like to be able to tell users "If a file gets corrupted, it's either a bug in OpenOffice or your hardware eats data." -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQIVAwUBQTe9pngHNmZLgCUhAQLTZQ/5AZq31sPKOWB/eI4WtVhM76V2+pmQdfNk aZkPtwhZlVrGDJscp45OVNthwMiSskD07om4obUMac79BCmA5805clZ7i0X1uzQB SecyX/7XITWz3iwF4VIaxJgDoo7YPFfbpWS0NTmhDJPt6h5Z+goEccLdTABj5kVk gbex4xNgXzPrnopvjnWx+K2K3ydvXiX+8bWV200F9S+j0uCObcfSZ357uQPqlReP gKQhEs0pCcoQQua81rXJfUhP8hCbegCpUmhJNI0MwoTUvHTnBU/+99+cCsTLR4gN 1XlbS9SIaaBXG7/AV9L7iQO5GF1t8mTMSe163EOzZ7ypLDb2km5e7zZ7t2DrA6SE Jgd0xT3cHjDgp1b3qhdeWYvt0QVfz5CGaiHukkT4pEOpsrM09BOhDhY72B74swuV byDIJ+y4X3J08i/a0zt15hBlVz1FUq7ac7doZZDt3orj93t3B/y4Xpb7tgzVGoWP T5AkR+uS5dGRUoMSI/btnPIK4ERlhbwFzCB5lgkas5kjp4dnawIKAk1wxPdhvEle g3SsNqSfBsA9hs6tzVw341GaWj6AWV7oOfg3j0c9I+7nt8SX5UeuTCwBWtCuwd/H +nnBulusiMnAm3tzQxq8aMpSVAqsZDywjgXSler1mNik4Ow5I5JdXl+Bf2ZWHF+G VHk4JVxMt/c= =3z3Z -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/