Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S269910AbUIDMId (ORCPT ); Sat, 4 Sep 2004 08:08:33 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S269912AbUIDMId (ORCPT ); Sat, 4 Sep 2004 08:08:33 -0400 Received: from shockwave.systems.pipex.net ([62.241.160.9]:53697 "EHLO shockwave.systems.pipex.net") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S269910AbUIDMIb (ORCPT ); Sat, 4 Sep 2004 08:08:31 -0400 Message-ID: <4139B03A.6040706@tungstengraphics.com> Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 13:08:26 +0100 From: Keith Whitwell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8a3) Gecko/20040817 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dave Jones Cc: Christoph Hellwig , Dave Airlie , Jon Smirl , dri-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: New proposed DRM interface design References: <20040904004424.93643.qmail@web14921.mail.yahoo.com> <20040904102914.B13149@infradead.org> <41398EBD.2040900@tungstengraphics.com> <20040904104834.B13362@infradead.org> <413997A7.9060406@tungstengraphics.com> <20040904112535.A13750@infradead.org> <4139995E.5030505@tungstengraphics.com> <20040904112930.GB2785@redhat.com> <4139A9F4.4040702@tungstengraphics.com> <20040904115442.GD2785@redhat.com> In-Reply-To: <20040904115442.GD2785@redhat.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 1713 Lines: 37 Dave Jones wrote: > There's already a per-distro mechanism to make all this all nice and > transparent to end-users. In Fedora, we even have 3 (apt-get/yum/up2date). > The problem is when 3rd parties like the DRI project expect users not to > use the tools they are familiar with, and expect them to run off to fetch > bits from websites and replace random bits of their system. > > Who do you think gets the support calls and blame when the X server breaks > because the user bodged it ? I think they get shared out pretty evenly between dri-users and your lot. We all agree there's a problem, I'm happy to do what it takes to move towards a solution. In the past, redhat & other vendors have only tracked XFree86 release cycles, which weren't exactly timely, and in the most recent instance, didn't even include an up-to-date DRI. Although we've mainly been bitching about the kernel, the real drag has been userspace updates. So, we are coming out of a period of history where it was extremely difficult to get our drivers to users through the 'official' channels - to the extent that many people have given up on the possibility of them working properly. Maybe things will improve now. Are you suggesting for instance, that RedHat might pick up individual drivers out of Xorg or better still Mesa, rather than waiting for a full stable release? That would probably be the biggest help - by comparison kernel releases are very frequent. Keith - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/