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Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 10:05:15 +0200
To: Miles Lane <miles@megapathdsl.net>
Cc: "David S. Miller" <davem@redhat.com>,
        James Simmons <jsimmons@linux-fbdev.org>,
        Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
        Linux Fbdev development list 
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Subject: Re: [Linux-fbdev-devel] Re: ANNOUNCE New Open Source X server
Message-ID: <20010419100515.A25514@lambda.u-strasbg.fr>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10104181317440.1478-100000@www.transvirtual.com> <15070.4428.345455.994818@pizda.ninka.net> <3ADE2A06.7EE56438@megapathdsl.net>
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In-Reply-To: <3ADE2A06.7EE56438@megapathdsl.net>; from miles@megapathdsl.net on Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:57:58PM -0700
From: Sven LUTHER <luther@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org
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On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:57:58PM -0700, Miles Lane wrote:
> "David S. Miller" wrote:
> > 
> > James Simmons writes:
> >  >     The Linux GFX project grew out the need for a higher performance X
> >  > server that has a much faster developement cycle. In the last few years
> >  > the graphics card and multimedia environments have grow at such a rate
> >  > the current X solutions can no longer keep pace nor do they focus on
> >  > producing high performance X servers specifically for linux. Also the
> >  > community has demanded for specific functionality which has never come to
> >  > light.
> > 
> > And this specific functionality is?
> > 
> > I think this is not a worthwhile project at all.  The X tree, it's
> > assosciated protocols and APIs, are complicated enough as it is, and
> > the xfree86 project has some of the most talented and capable people
> > in this area.  It would be a step backwards to do things outside of
> > xfree86 development.
> > 
> > If the issue is that "things don't happen fast enough in the xfree86
> > tree", why not lend them a hand and submitting patches to them instead
> > of complaining?
> 
> Yes, David, I concur.  
> 
> James, please just pitch in and help XFree86 evolve faster.
> There are drivers that need to be "Render" extension enabled.  

Sure, but if there was a Render documentation or something such, things would
be much easier. 

> There's more work to do on fleshing out the Render extension.  
> I am sure that Kieth Packard would be grateful for any 
> worthwhile contributions.
> 
> If you are thinking that you'll provide better accellerated 
> graphics rendering performance, I'd love to know how you plan 
> to accomplish this.  AFAIK, the main impediment to XFree86 
> giving really good accelleration support for a broad array 
> of hardware is the lack of technical documentation from the 
> manufacturers.  Unless you plan on trying to get hardware 

Well, in doing fbdev drivers you already solve this kind of problems.

> manufactures to have you develop their closed-source drivers 
> for them, I don't see how you'll be able to do any better 

closed source driver are evil anyway, so don't worry about those.

> than the XFree86 organization is already doing.
> 
> XFree86 evolves in a measured way as a result of many 
> competing needs.  Backward compatibility is needed for the 
> huge installed base of legacy apps.  For the various 
> development toolkits (KDE, Gnome, etc.) there is a rapid 
> move toward using the Render and "Resize and Rotate" 
> extensions.  These extensions will make all sorts of cool 
> rendering functionality available to the applications that 
> use these toolkits (alpha blending, anti-aliased fonts and 
> so on).  
> 
> I'd love to hear you enumerate all the shortcomings that you
> believe need to be addressed.  Also, please CC: devel@xfree86.org.
> At least give the competition an opportunity to win over the 
> support of the developers you'd like to pull away from 
> XFree86 work!

I think the main critic (guessing from his announcement) is the interaction
between the console system and xfree86, as well as the
multi-head/keyboard/whatever handling, but let's hear what james has to say
about it.

Friendly,

Sven Luther
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