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From: Daniel Phillips <phillips@bonn-fries.net>
To: Marco Colombo <marco@esi.it>
Subject: Re: VM Requirement Document - v0.0
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 17:03:26 +0200
Cc: Rik van Riel <riel@conectiva.com.br>, <mike_phillips@urscorp.com>,
        <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0107041033230.4236-100000@Megathlon.ESI>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0107041033230.4236-100000@Megathlon.ESI>
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On Wednesday 04 July 2001 11:41, Marco Colombo wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Daniel Phillips wrote:
> > On Tuesday 03 July 2001 12:33, Marco Colombo wrote:
> > > Oh, yes, since that PAGE_AGE_BG_INTERACTIVE_MINIMUM is applied only
> > > when background aging, maybe it's not enough to keep processes like
> > > updatedb from causing interactive pages to be evicted.
> > > That's why I said we should have another way to detect that kind of
> > > activity... well, the application could just let us know (no need to
> > > embed an autotuning-genetic-page-replacement-optimizer into the
> > > kernel). We should just drop all FS metadata accessed by updatedb,
> > > since we know that's one-shot only, without raising pressure at all.
> >
> > Note that some of updatedb's metadata pages are of the accessed-often
> > kind, e.g., directory blocks and inodes.  A blanket low priority on all
> > the pages updatedb touches just won't do.
>
> Remember that the first message was about a laptop. At 4:00AM there's
> no activity but the updatedb one (and the other cron jobs). Simply,
> there's no 'accessed-often' data.  Moreover, I'd bet that 90% of the
> metadata touched by updatedb won't be accessed at all in the future.
> Laptop users don't do find /usr/share/terminfo/ so often.

The problem is when you have a directory block, say, that has to stay around 
quite a few seconds before dropping into disuse.  You sure don't want that 
block treated as 'accessed-once'.

The goal here is to get through the updatedb as quickly as possible.  Getting 
the user's "interactive" programs loaded back in afterwards is a separate, 
much more difficult problem IMHO, but no doubt still has a reasonable 
solution.  I'm not that worried about it, my feeling is: if we fix up the MM 
so it doesn't bog down with a lot of pages in cache and, in addition, do 
better readahead, interactive performance will be just fine.

> > > Just like
> > > (not that I'm proposing it) putting those "one-shot" pages directly on
> > > the inactive-clean list instead of the active list. How an application
> > > could declare such a behaviour is an open question, of course. Maybe
> > > it's even possible to detect it. And BTW that's really fine tuning.
> > > Evicting an 8 hours old page may be a mistake sometime, but it's never
> > > a *big* mistake.
> >
> > IMHO, updatedb *should* evict all the "interactive" pages that aren't
> > actually doing anything[1].  That way it should run faster, provided of
> > course its accessed-once pages are properly given low priority.
>
> So in the morning you find your Gnome session completely on swap,
> and at the same time a lot of free mem.
>
> > I see three page priority levels:
> >
> >   0 - accessed-never/aged to zero
> >   1 - accessed-once/just loaded
> >   2 - accessed-often
> >
> > with these transitions:
> >
> >   0 -> 1, if a page is accessed
> >   1 -> 2, if a page is accessed a second time
> >   1 -> 0, if a page gets old
> >   2 -> 0, if a page gets old
> >
> > The 0 and 1 level pages are on a fifo queue, the 2 level pages are
> > scanned clock-wise, relying on the age computation[2].  Eviction
> > candidates are taken from the cold end of the 0 level list, unless it is
> > empty, in which case they are taken from the 1 level list. In
> > desperation, eviction candidates are taken from the 2 level list, i.e.,
> > random eviction policy, as opposed to what we do now which is to initiate
> > an emergency scan of the active list for new inactive candidates - rather
> > like calling a quick board meeting when the building is on fire.
>
> Well, it's just aging faster when it's needed. Random evicting is not
> good.

It's better than getting bogged down in scanning latency just at the point 
you should be starting new writeouts.  Obviously, it's a tradeoff.

> List 2 is ordered by age, and there're always better candidates
> at the end of the list than at the front. The higher the pressure,
> the shorter is the time a page has to rest idle to get at the end of the
> list. But the list *is* ordered.

No, list 2 is randomly ordered.  Pages move from the initial trial list to 
the active list with 0 temperature, and drop in just behind the one-hand scan 
pointer (which we actually implement as the head of the list).  After that 
they get "aged" up or down as we do now.  (New improved terminology: heated 
or cooled according to the referenced bit.)

> > Note that the above is only a very slight departure from the current
> > design. And by the way, this is just brainstorming, it hasn't reached the
> > 'proposal' stage yet.
> >
> > [1] It would be nice to have a mechanism whereby the evicted
> > 'interactive' pages are automatically reloaded when updatedb has finished
> > its work.  This is a case of scavenging unused disk bandwidth for
> > something useful, i.e., improving the interactive experience.
>
> updatedb doesn't really need all the memory it takes. All it needs is
> a small buffer to sequentially scan all the disk. So we should just
> drop all the pages it references, since we already know they won't be
> referenced again by noone else.

I hope it's clear how the method I'm describing does that.

> > [2] I much prefer the hot/cold terminology over old/young.  The latter
> > gets confusing because a 'high' age is 'young'.  I'd rather think of a
> > high value as being 'hot'.
>
> True. s/page->age/page->temp/g B-)

Yep.

--
Daniel
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