To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Path: not-for-mail
From: Bill Davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
Newsgroups: mail.linux-kernel
Subject: Re: Slightly OT: We should move linux related channels off of FreeNode
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 17:54:20 -0500
Organization: TMR Associates, Inc
Message-ID: <cvll0j$g80$1@gatekeeper.tmr.com>
References: <200502230651.16151.pmcfarland@downeast.net>
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Patrick McFarland wrote:
> Today lilo (the FreeNode network owner) has decided to make one step away in a 
> direction opposite of freedom, and banned all Tor users from the FreeNode 
> network.
> 
> Tor ( http://tor.eff.org ) is an open source anonymous gateway system. Many 
> users who are not in the position to be able to use IRC otherwise (such as 
> those who live in countries who do not believe in free speech) now cannot use 
> Freenode any longer.

How does tor.eff.org identify the oppressed users who have no other 
means of free speech from the flaming assholes who disrupt irc under the 
cloak of anonimity? Are you saying that there is no problem on freenode 
caused by these users, and this action is just a block for no reason 
other than a hatred of anonymous users?
> 
> Do we want to use an IRC network that no longer supports freedom? Our only 
> option is to move to another network, such as irc.noderebellion.net or 
> irc.oftc.net. Channels such as #kernelnewbies have already moved to oftc due 
> to lilo's past actions.

In what sense "moved?" There is a channel, there are lots of people 
there, they are discussing Linux, they are making sense... If you mean 
YOU have moved to a channel of the same name elsewhere, or that people 
you think are important, helpful, or whatever have moved, fine. But 
unlike some of the other channels which come up with a note saying they 
have moved, #kernelnewbies continues to exist and be used. By people 
willing to answer a question, even.

Freedom of speech is an odd thing, people think that they have lost it 
if a publisher will not publish their material, however you define 
publisher and media. I don't personally believe it includes the right to 
force me to listen, or disrupt ongoing conversations.

Both USEnet and E-Mail have been flooded by people claiming freedom of 
speech. In the battle to keep the Internet useful, there is collateral 
damage, and it sounds as if this is what's happening. You would be far 
more accurate to say that freenode has made a different balance between 
freedom for people willing to identify themselves and freedom for 
everyone without regard for their content. Terms like "no longer 
supports freedom" are not helpful.

-- 
    -bill davidsen (davidsen@tmr.com)
"The secret to procrastination is to put things off until the
  last possible moment - but no longer"  -me
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