Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S263031AbVCDTVl (ORCPT ); Fri, 4 Mar 2005 14:21:41 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S263023AbVCDTRz (ORCPT ); Fri, 4 Mar 2005 14:17:55 -0500 Received: from mailwasher.lanl.gov ([192.65.95.54]:5335 "EHLO mailwasher-b.lanl.gov") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S262999AbVCDTHl (ORCPT ); Fri, 4 Mar 2005 14:07:41 -0500 Message-ID: <4228B1EB.4040503@mesatop.com> Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 12:07:23 -0700 From: Steven Cole User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.0 (Multics) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeff Garzik CC: Linus Torvalds , Andrew Morton , Jens Axboe , tglx@linutronix.de, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: RFD: Kernel release numbering References: <422751C1.7030607@pobox.com> <20050303181122.GB12103@kroah.com> <20050303151752.00527ae7.akpm@osdl.org> <20050303234523.GS8880@opteron.random> <20050303160330.5db86db7.akpm@osdl.org> <20050304025746.GD26085@tolot.miese-zwerge.org> <20050303213005.59a30ae6.akpm@osdl.org> <1109924470.4032.105.camel@tglx.tec.linutronix.de> <20050304005450.05a2bd0c.akpm@osdl.org> <20050304091612.GG14764@suse.de> <20050304012154.619948d7.akpm@osdl.org> <4228A9B9.4060308@pobox.com> In-Reply-To: <4228A9B9.4060308@pobox.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-PMX-Version: 4.7.0.111621 Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 2267 Lines: 58 Jeff Garzik wrote: > Linus Torvalds wrote: > >> I've long since decided that there's no point to making "-pre". What's >> the difference between a "-pre" and a daily -bk snapshot? Really? > > > Several non-BK developers use the first -rc1 as a merge point. > > Others simply trust that _Linus_ has a lot more smarts than an automated > script, about deciding when a good testing point should occur. Holy > Penguin Pee has value, they feel. > > >> So when I do a release, it _is_ an -rc. The fact that people have >> trouble understanding this is not _my_ fault. > > > If you want people to start testing, a good first step would be > understanding why this is so. > > Users have been trained that -rc means "serious bugfixes only". You are > trying to re-train them. That just won't work. > > When you do an -rc1 or -rc2, it is not serious bugfixes only. > _Especially_ rc1. rc1 is in no way "bugfixes only." Non-BK developers > just treat the first couple -rc's as a merge point, while the rest of us > BK developers have already gone into "send bugfixes only" mode. > > You are fighting an uphill battle against user perceptions and training. > > Jeff > Here's an idea which might just be too simple, but here it is anyway: Modifiy the bk snapshot scripts to name the 2.6.x series snapshots as -PREy instead of -BKy. That way, the general population of users will see the -bk snapshots as -pre releases. According to Linus, pre == bk. So, name them as such. Linus, wait for at least two weeks before releasing the first -rc. That way, the bulk on the thundering herd of patches will be hopefully be merged by then. And users will have 2.6.x-PRE[1..14] to test. The hard part for the kernel.org script writer might be to disable the -bk/-pre snapshot once the first -rc is out. Since your _intent_ is that an -rc really be an -rc, make it so. It shouldn't take more than a release or two to train the maintainers that the post-2.6.11 -rc's are _really_ release candidates. Steven - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/