Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 11:48:45 -0700
From: Mark Fasheh <mark.fasheh@oracle.com>
To: David Teigland <teigland@redhat.com>
Cc: Wim Coekaerts <wim.coekaerts@oracle.com>, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
       akpm@osdl.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/7] dlm: overview
Message-ID: <20050426184845.GA938@ca-server1.us.oracle.com>
Reply-To: Mark Fasheh <mark.fasheh@oracle.com>
References: <20050425151136.GA6826@redhat.com> <20050425203952.GE25002@ca-server1.us.oracle.com> <20050426053930.GA12096@redhat.com>
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On Tue, Apr 26, 2005 at 01:39:30PM +0800, David Teigland wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2005 at 01:39:52PM -0700, Wim Coekaerts wrote:
> > > This is a distributed lock manager (dlm) that we'd like to see added to
> > > the kernel.  The dlm programming api is very similar to that found on
> > > other operating systems, but this is modeled most closely after that in
> > > VMS.
> > 
> > do you have any performance data at all on this ? I like to see a dlm
> > but I like to see something that will also perform well. 
> 
> No.  What kind of performance measurements do you have in mind?  Most dlm
> lock requests involve sending a message to a remote machine and waiting
> for a reply.  I expect this network round-trip is the bulk of the time for
> a request, which is why I'm a bit confused by your question.
Resource lookup times, times to deliver events to clients (asts, basts,
etc) for starters. How long does recovery take after a node crash? How does
all of this scale as you increase the number of nodes in your cluster?
Sure, network speed is a part of the equation, but it's not the *whole*
equation and I've seen dlms that can get downright nasty when it comes to
recovery speeds, etc.

> Now, sometimes there are two remote messages (when a resource directory
> lookup is needed).  You can eliminate that by not using a resource
> directory, which will soon be a configurable option.
> 
> 
> > My main concern is that I have not seen anything relying on this code do
> > "reasonably well". eg can you show gfs numbers w/ number of nodes and
> > scalability ?
> 
> I'd suggest that if some cluster application is using the dlm and has poor
> performance or scalability, the reason and solution lies mostly in the
> app, not in the dlm.  That's assuming we're not doing anything blatantly
> dumb in the dlm, butI think you may be placing too much emphasis on the
> role of the dlm here.
Well, obviously the dlm is only one component of an entire system, but for a
cluster application it can certainly be an important component, one whose
performance is worth looking into. I don't think asking for this
information is out of the question.
	--Mark

> > I think it's time we submit ocfs2 w/ it's cluster stack so that folks
> > can compare (including actual data/numbers), we have been waiting to
> > stabilize everything but I guess there is this preemptive strike going
> > on so we might just as well. at least we have had hch and folks comment,
> > before sending to submit code.
> 
> Strike?  Preemption?  That sounds frightfully conspiratorial and
> contentious; who have you been talking to?  It's obvious to me that ocfs2
> and gfs each have their own happy niche; they're hardly equivalent (more
> so considering all the flavors of local file systems.)  This is surely a
> case of "different", not "conflict"!
> 
> 
> > Andrew - we will submit ocfs2 so you can have a look, compare and move
> > on.  we will work with any stack that eventuslly gets accepted, just want 
> > to see the choice out there and an educated decision.
> > 
> > hopefully tomorrow, including data comparing single node and multinode
> > performance.
> 
> I'd really like to see ocfs succeed, but good heavens, why do we need to
> study an entire cluster fs when looking at a dlm!?  A cluster fs may use a
> dlm, but a dlm is surely a stand-alone entity with _many_ applications
> beyond a cluster fs (which is frankly a rather obscure app.)
>
> We've made great effort to make the dlm broadly useful beyond the realm of
> gfs or cluster file systems.  In the long run I expect other cluster apps
> will out-use the dlm by far.
>
> Dave
> 
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--
Mark Fasheh
Senior Software Developer, Oracle
mark.fasheh@oracle.com

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