Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 20:57:14 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 20:57:03 -0400 Received: from krusty.E-Technik.Uni-Dortmund.DE ([129.217.163.1]:46341 "HELO krusty.e-technik.uni-dortmund.de") by vger.kernel.org with SMTP id ; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 20:56:53 -0400 Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 02:57:00 +0200 From: Matthias Andree To: Linus Torvalds Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: ext3-2.4-0.9.4 Message-ID: <20010731025700.G28253@emma1.emma.line.org> Mail-Followup-To: Linus Torvalds , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org In-Reply-To: <3B5FC7FB.D5AF0932@zip.com.au> <20010726130809.D17244@emma1.emma.line.org> <3B60022D.C397D80E@zip.com.au> <20010726143002.E17244@emma1.emma.line.org> <9jpea7$s25$1@penguin.transmeta.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <9jpea7$s25$1@penguin.transmeta.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.19i Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Original-Recipient: rfc822;linux-kernel-outgoing On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Linus Torvalds wrote: > In article <20010726143002.E17244@emma1.emma.line.org>, > Matthias Andree wrote: > > > >However, the remaining problem is being synchronous with respect to open > >(fixed for ext3 with your fsync() as I understand it), rename, link and > >unlink. With ext2, and as you write it, with ext3 as well, there is > >currently no way to tell when the link/rename has been committed to > >disk, unless you set mount -o sync or chattr +S or call sync() (the > >former is not an option because it's far too expensive). > > Congratulations. You have been brainwashed by Dan Bernstein. No, I asked Wietse Venema what assumptions Postfix makes. Since he refuses to fsync() directories, he has Postfix set chattr +S to enforce the semantics he expects. No problem here. > Use fsync() on the directory. > > Logical, isn't it? Why go all the lengths to look up each single directory path component again just to fsync() stuff that doesn't belong to you and that you don't want synched, possibly the entire device? Chase up to the root manually, because Linux' ext2 violates SUS v2 fsync() (which requires meta data synched BTW), as has been pointed out (and fixed in ReiserFS and ext3)? Admittedly, MTAs are (supposed to be) (per command of RFC-1123) more paranoid than the average application - and per lack of standard whether rename/link & Co. need to be synchronous or asynchronous, this is a problem for the MTA. So, please tell my why Single Unix Specification v2 specifies EIO for rename. Asynchronous I/O cannot possibly trigger immediate EIO. -- Matthias Andree - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/