Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S932201AbVI2PUo (ORCPT ); Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:20:44 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S932199AbVI2PUo (ORCPT ); Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:20:44 -0400 Received: from mail.dvmed.net ([216.237.124.58]:54251 "EHLO mail.dvmed.net") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S932196AbVI2PUn (ORCPT ); Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:20:43 -0400 Message-ID: <433C0641.3030101@pobox.com> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:20:33 -0400 From: Jeff Garzik User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6-1.1.fc4 (X11/20050720) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Luben Tuikov CC: Arjan van de Ven , Willy Tarreau , SCSI Mailing List , Linus Torvalds , Andrew Morton , Linux Kernel Mailing List Subject: Re: I request inclusion of SAS Transport Layer and AIC-94xx into the kernel References: <43384E28.8030207@adaptec.com> <4339BFE9.1060604@pobox.com> <4339CCD6.5010409@adaptec.com> <4339F9A8.2030709@pobox.com> <433AFEB2.7090003@adaptec.com> <433B0457.7020509@pobox.com> <433B14E1.6080201@adaptec.com> <433B217F.4060509@pobox.com> <20050929040403.GE18716@alpha.home.local> <1127979848.2918.7.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> <433C0398.4040302@adaptec.com> In-Reply-To: <433C0398.4040302@adaptec.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 1354 Lines: 39 Luben Tuikov wrote: > On 09/29/05 03:44, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > >>a spec describes how the hw works... how we do the sw piece is up to >>us ;) > > > Arjan, I'll be your best friend here: > Never say this in public or in an intervew. It's hard-earned experience. We constantly have to teach hardware vendors how to write good drivers. At some point you have to step away from the spec, and ask yourself what makes sense for Linux. I've already had to poke T10 when they put silly things in the SAT spec. As a tangent, I already have a design for a Linux filesystem that makes use of SCSI object-based storage (to James's horror, no doubt :)). It's a fun thing to ponder. > Hardware folks needs to work with software folks and > software folks need to work with hardware folks. Certainly. The historical disconnect is where hardware vendors tend to presume They Know Best, when in reality it needs to be an equal tradeoff. Hardware vendors must admit they don't know Linux, and Linux developers must admit that hardware vendors know their own hardware better than anyone else. Jeff - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/