Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S932273AbVI2RPt (ORCPT ); Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:15:49 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S932271AbVI2RPt (ORCPT ); Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:15:49 -0400 Received: from ns.firmix.at ([62.141.48.66]:26772 "EHLO ns.firmix.at") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S932267AbVI2RPs (ORCPT ); Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:15:48 -0400 Subject: Re: I request inclusion of SAS Transport Layer and AIC-94xx into the kernel From: Bernd Petrovitsch To: Luben Tuikov Cc: Linux Kernel Mailing List , SCSI Mailing List , Andre Hedrick , Patrick Mansfield , Luben Tuikov , Jeff Garzik , Andrew Morton , Linus Torvalds In-Reply-To: <433C174D.4050302@adaptec.com> References: <433B0374.4090100@adaptec.com> <20050928223542.GA12559@alpha.home.local> <433BFB1F.2020808@adaptec.com> <1128007032.11443.77.camel@tara.firmix.at> <433C174D.4050302@adaptec.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Firmix Software GmbH Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 19:13:27 +0200 Message-Id: <1128014007.11443.108.camel@tara.firmix.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.3 (2.2.3-2.fc4) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 3137 Lines: 69 On Thu, 2005-09-29 at 12:33 -0400, Luben Tuikov wrote: > On 09/29/05 11:17, Bernd Petrovitsch wrote: [...] > > Then submit your driver as a (separate) block device in parallel to the > > existing SCSI subsystem. People will use it for/with other parts if it > > SAS is ultimately SCSI. I'll just have to write my own SCSI core. > _We_ together can do this in parallel to the old SCSI Core. > > This is the whole idea. The question is: Who starts and leads seriously this effort (and takes in the course others with him)? Just telling others where to go and waiting until they carry you there usually doesn't succeed if you are not the boss of them (and/or they are free to leave at any time without significant punishment). > > makes sense (and you - as the maintainer - accept their patches). And in [...] > > a few years the "old" SCSI core fades out as legacy drives fade out (or > > they will happily coexist forever). > > Yep, I've been saying this since 2002. On the linux-scsi ML. Perhaps speaking is not enough and work should follow? All people who really do the work like those others standing beneath (possibly doing their own thing) and telling them how to do their own work best. > And this is the problem: *you* and "the community" see things in > *this* way: "your balls - my balls", "yours/mine". It's at most (and actually exactly) "my work - your work", not "my balls - your balls" (or "code" or whatever). If you want to play "our work" (read: team[0] work), than you have to cope with others (and they with you), their - probably historically grown - design (even if it is wrong), etc. If this doesn't work (and ATM I have this impression) for whatever reason, the second step is "my work, your work". And if two (or more) people have different design opinions (and different opinions about "quality" and/or "correct vs wrong" - I can't decide since I have virtually no knowledge about SCSI core internals, discussions on the Linux-SCSI-ML, etc. to decide - not even for me -, who is "right" and/or "wrong" in which aspect or in general), it comes down to "better the not-so-good design and working code than the best design and no code". So just copy the old core, throw out what you don't want, need and/or like and voila. If it *is* "better", it will succeed and people will come and help. Of course it is probably more work in the short and in the long run to maintain a separate block driver for SAS storage, but it is at least a possible solution. Perhaps all relevant people will see that the difference is small enough to converge to some point in between. Bernd [0]: Not in the ironic interpretation in German which translates roughly to "great, another one does it". -- Firmix Software GmbH http://www.firmix.at/ mobil: +43 664 4416156 fax: +43 1 7890849-55 Embedded Linux Development and Services - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/