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Date:   Mon, 20 May 2019 09:08:52 -0400
From:   "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com>
To:     Thiago Jung Bauermann <bauerman@linux.ibm.com>
Cc:     virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org,
        linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org, iommu@lists.linux-foundation.org,
        linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Jason Wang <jasowang@redhat.com>,
        Christoph Hellwig <hch@lst.de>,
        David Gibson <david@gibson.dropbear.id.au>,
        Alexey Kardashevskiy <aik@linux.ibm.com>,
        Paul Mackerras <paulus@ozlabs.org>,
        Benjamin Herrenschmidt <benh@kernel.crashing.org>,
        Ram Pai <linuxram@us.ibm.com>,
        Jean-Philippe Brucker <jean-philippe.brucker@arm.com>,
        Michael Roth <mdroth@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
        Mike Anderson <andmike@linux.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH] virtio_ring: Use DMA API if guest memory is encrypted
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On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 08:56:43PM -0300, Thiago Jung Bauermann wrote:
> 
> Michael S. Tsirkin <mst@redhat.com> writes:
> 
> > On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 10:01:56PM -0300, Thiago Jung Bauermann wrote:
> >>
> >> Michael S. Tsirkin <mst@redhat.com> writes:
> >>
> >> > On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 06:42:00PM -0300, Thiago Jung Bauermann wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Michael S. Tsirkin <mst@redhat.com> writes:
> >> >>
> >> >> > On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 09:05:04PM -0300, Thiago Jung Bauermann wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Michael S. Tsirkin <mst@redhat.com> writes:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 01:13:41PM -0300, Thiago Jung Bauermann wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >From what I understand of the ACCESS_PLATFORM definition, the host will
> >> >> >> >> only ever try to access memory addresses that are supplied to it by the
> >> >> >> >> guest, so all of the secure guest memory that the host cares about is
> >> >> >> >> accessible:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>     If this feature bit is set to 0, then the device has same access to
> >> >> >> >>     memory addresses supplied to it as the driver has. In particular,
> >> >> >> >>     the device will always use physical addresses matching addresses
> >> >> >> >>     used by the driver (typically meaning physical addresses used by the
> >> >> >> >>     CPU) and not translated further, and can access any address supplied
> >> >> >> >>     to it by the driver. When clear, this overrides any
> >> >> >> >>     platform-specific description of whether device access is limited or
> >> >> >> >>     translated in any way, e.g. whether an IOMMU may be present.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> All of the above is true for POWER guests, whether they are secure
> >> >> >> >> guests or not.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Or are you saying that a virtio device may want to access memory
> >> >> >> >> addresses that weren't supplied to it by the driver?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Your logic would apply to IOMMUs as well.  For your mode, there are
> >> >> >> > specific encrypted memory regions that driver has access to but device
> >> >> >> > does not. that seems to violate the constraint.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Right, if there's a pre-configured 1:1 mapping in the IOMMU such that
> >> >> >> the device can ignore the IOMMU for all practical purposes I would
> >> >> >> indeed say that the logic would apply to IOMMUs as well. :-)
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I guess I'm still struggling with the purpose of signalling to the
> >> >> >> driver that the host may not have access to memory addresses that it
> >> >> >> will never try to access.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > For example, one of the benefits is to signal to host that driver does
> >> >> > not expect ability to access all memory. If it does, host can
> >> >> > fail initialization gracefully.
> >> >>
> >> >> But why would the ability to access all memory be necessary or even
> >> >> useful? When would the host access memory that the driver didn't tell it
> >> >> to access?
> >> >
> >> > When I say all memory I mean even memory not allowed by the IOMMU.
> >>
> >> Yes, but why? How is that memory relevant?
> >
> > It's relevant when driver is not trusted to only supply correct
> > addresses. The feature was originally designed to support userspace
> > drivers within guests.
> 
> Ah, thanks for clarifying. I don't think that's a problem in our case.
> If the guest provides an incorrect address, the hardware simply won't
> allow the host to access it.
> 
> >> >> >> > Another idea is maybe something like virtio-iommu?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> You mean, have legacy guests use virtio-iommu to request an IOMMU
> >> >> >> bypass? If so, it's an interesting idea for new guests but it doesn't
> >> >> >> help with guests that are out today in the field, which don't have A
> >> >> >> virtio-iommu driver.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I presume legacy guests don't use encrypted memory so why do we
> >> >> > worry about them at all?
> >> >>
> >> >> They don't use encrypted memory, but a host machine will run a mix of
> >> >> secure and legacy guests. And since the hypervisor doesn't know whether
> >> >> a guest will be secure or not at the time it is launched, legacy guests
> >> >> will have to be launched with the same configuration as secure guests.
> >> >
> >> > OK and so I think the issue is that hosts generally fail if they set
> >> > ACCESS_PLATFORM and guests do not negotiate it.
> >> > So you can not just set ACCESS_PLATFORM for everyone.
> >> > Is that the issue here?
> >>
> >> Yes, that is one half of the issue. The other is that even if hosts
> >> didn't fail, existing legacy guests wouldn't "take the initiative" of
> >> not negotiating ACCESS_PLATFORM to get the improved performance. They'd
> >> have to be modified to do that.
> >
> > So there's a non-encrypted guest, hypervisor wants to set
> > ACCESS_PLATFORM to allow encrypted guests but that will slow down legacy
> > guests since their vIOMMU emulation is very slow.
> 
> Yes.
> 
> > So enabling support for encryption slows down non-encrypted guests. Not
> > great but not the end of the world, considering even older guests that
> > don't support ACCESS_PLATFORM are completely broken and you do not seem
> > to be too worried by that.
> 
> Well, I guess that would be the third half of the issue. :-)
> 
> > For future non-encrypted guests, bypassing the emulated IOMMU for when
> > that emulated IOMMU is very slow might be solvable in some other way,
> > e.g. with virtio-iommu. Which reminds me, could you look at
> > virtio-iommu as a solution for some of the issues?
> > Review of that patchset from that POV would be appreciated.
> 
> Yes, I will have a look. As you mentioned already, virtio-iommu doesn't
> define a way to request iommu bypass for a device so that would have to
> be added.

I think it does have a way for guest to request bypass:
there's a feature bit which - if set - specifies that a device
that is in no domain bypasses the iommu.

> Though to be honest in practice I don't think such a feature in
> virtio-iommu would make things easier for us, at least in the short
> term. It would take the same effort to define a powerpc-specific
> hypercall to accomplish the same thing (easier, in fact since we
> wouldn't have to implement the rest of virtio-iommu). In fact, there
> already is such hypercall, but it is only defined for VIO devices
> (RTAS_IBM_SET_TCE_BYPASS in QEMU). We would have to make it work on
> virtio devices as well.

Now I'm a bit lost. Could you pls describe quickly what does it do?

> --
> Thiago Jung Bauermann
> IBM Linux Technology Center