Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S964895AbVLFBSs (ORCPT ); Mon, 5 Dec 2005 20:18:48 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S964896AbVLFBSs (ORCPT ); Mon, 5 Dec 2005 20:18:48 -0500 Received: from ppp-217-133-42-200.cust-adsl.tiscali.it ([217.133.42.200]:31748 "EHLO opteron.random") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S964895AbVLFBSr (ORCPT ); Mon, 5 Dec 2005 20:18:47 -0500 Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 02:18:44 +0100 From: Andrea Arcangeli To: William Lee Irwin III Cc: Arjan van de Ven , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: Linux in a binary world... a doomsday scenario Message-ID: <20051206011844.GO28539@opteron.random> References: <1133779953.9356.9.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> <20051205121851.GC2838@holomorphy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20051205121851.GC2838@holomorphy.com> Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 3300 Lines: 64 On Mon, Dec 05, 2005 at 04:18:51AM -0800, William Lee Irwin III wrote: > The December 6 event is extraordinarily unlikely. What's vastly more > likely is consistent "erosion" over time. First the 3D video drivers, > then the wireless network drivers, then the fakeraid drivers, and so on. I agree about the erosion. I am convinced that the only way to stop the erosion is to totally stop buying hardware that has only binary only drivers (unless you buy it to create an open source driver or to reverse engineer the binary only driver of course! ;). For example if a laptop has an embedded wirless or 3d card not supported by open source drivers, buy a laptop without any wireless card or without 3d, instead of buying one with the not-supported hardware without using it (I can guarantee there are still laptops that requires no 3d binary only drivers and no wirless cards drivers, even for the winmodems you can choose the ones supported by alsa). We literally have to refuse buying those cards with binary only kernel drivers. Every time we buy a piece of hardware with binary only drivers we admit that the binary only driver vendors are doing the right choice for their stockholders. Only when we refuse to buy it, we can make a slight difference. When we don't buy hardware without open source drivers, we send the message to the shareholders that the management is causing them a loss. It's market forces controlling which drivers are open sources and which aren't (the risk of being sued and the cost of the laywers is only part of the more complex equation), and the customers have an huge strength in controlling those forces (we effectively control 50% of it). The fact Arjan got the "nvidia fanboy" complaining, is the sign that some people just don't care. This understandable for a 3d kind of product which is 90% for entertainment (nobody loses money when it crashes), and we generally can't expect everyone to care about the long term kernel development. But at least for all more business oriented usages of linux, linux users should understand the erosion they create by funding companies that requires binary only drivers. Every time we buy an hardware with a binary only driver, we effectively increase the erosion, or we give a sound reason to those company to keep eroding. I think messages like the one from Arjan are very positive to let people understand the long term effect of binary only drivers, but this should be combined with the strategy to use to reduce the erosion (i.e. not to buy hardware that has binary only drivers). Perhaps we should add a printk that points to an url on kernel.org including Arjan's message every time a non-gpl module gets loaded by the kernel. I think it's a matter of educating the customer too or they can do mistakes, creating a blacklist would help too. I don't believe in the breaking of the 3d drivers gratuitously, it should be market forces deciding which drivers have to be open sources and which not. But our side of the market (i.e. the buyers) must be educated properly. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/