Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 13:34:59 +0100 (CET)
From: Roman Zippel <zippel@linux-m68k.org>
To: James Bruce <bruce@andrew.cmu.edu>
cc: David Lang <david.lang@digitalinsight.com>,
       Kyle Moffett <mrmacman_g4@mac.com>,
       Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>, johnstul@us.ibm.com,
       george@mvista.com, mingo@elte.hu, akpm@osdl.org,
       linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
       ray-gmail@madrabbit.org, Russell King <rmk+lkml@arm.linux.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [patch 00/43] ktimer reworked
In-Reply-To: <4396ACF5.3050204@andrew.cmu.edu>
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 <Pine.LNX.4.61.0512021124360.1609@scrub.home> <4396ACF5.3050204@andrew.cmu.edu>
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Hi,

On Wed, 7 Dec 2005, James Bruce wrote:

> > Guys, before you continue spreading nonsense, please read carefully Ingos
> > description of the timer wheel at http://lwn.net/Articles/156329/ .
> > Let me also refine the statement I made in this mail: the _focus_ on
> > delivery is complete nonsense.
> 
> Must you start every email with inflammatory rhetoric?  If you want to know
> why you find it difficult to get people to see things your way, the key is in
> the above paragraph.  In everyday life you don't insult a person on the street
> and then ask them for directions.

You analogy is wrong: Thomas and Ingo spread flyer for "free food", above 
is my frustration about all the people wanting free food.

> And that's the whole *point* about how we got here.  Let the low resolution,
> low lifetime timeouts stay on the timer wheel, and make a new approach that
> specializes in handling longer lifetime, higher resolution timers.  That's
> ktimers in a nutshell.  You seem to be arguing for it rather than against it.

I do, just without the focus on the lifetime, which is really unimportant 
for most kernel developers.

> You've brought up the fact that networking shouldn't use lots of timers
> several times in the overall discussion.  If you know how to do this, I'm sure
> you can start sending patches to netdev and show them all how stupid they've
> been all along.  However, more likely you'll just find out that just maybe the
> networking people really *have* thought about the problem, and the solution
> they came up with is actually a pretty good one.
> 
> At any rate, while you fix up all those "timer-abusing" subsystems throughout
> the kernel, can we just try to improve the timer system in the meantime?

James, after giving me a rhetoric lesson you maybe should be a bit more
careful with your own rhetoric. What kind of answer do you expect after 
insulting me?

The short version is that I didn't bring up the network timer problem, I 
only made a suggestions how it could be solved, but nobody followed me up 
on it, so I guess the problem wasn't really that big. Please check the 
archives for details.

bye, Roman
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