Subject: Re: GNU/Linux in a binary world... a doomsday scenario
From: Bernd Petrovitsch <bernd@firmix.at>
To: "Jeff V. Merkey" <jmerkey@wolfmountaingroup.com>
Cc: Jan-Benedict Glaw <jbglaw@lug-owl.de>,
       Helge Hafting <helgehaf@aitel.hist.no>, rms@gnu.org,
       Coywolf Qi Hunt <coywolf@gmail.com>, luke-jr@utopios.org,
       linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
In-Reply-To: <439B3E36.7090302@wolfmountaingroup.com>
References: <21d7e9970512051610n1244467am12adc8373c1a4473@mail.gmail.com>
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	 <2cd57c900512052358m5b631204i@mail.gmail.com>
	 <200512061856.42493.luke-jr@utopios.org>
	 <2cd57c900512061742s28f57b5eu@mail.gmail.com>
	 <20051210051628.E9E08CF4156@tsurukikun.utopios.org>
	 <439A7E8E.8010707@wolfmountaingroup.com>
	 <20051210164320.GB15986@aitel.hist.no> <20051210190537.GI13985@lug-owl.de>
	 <439B2215.6090408@wolfmountaingroup.com>
	 <20051210191501.GJ13985@lug-owl.de>
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Organization: http://www.firmix.at/
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 14:56:20 +0100
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On Sat, 2005-12-10 at 13:44 -0700, Jeff V. Merkey wrote:
[....]
> I'm married to a German citizen and I visit Germany for 3-4 week stints 

Then you should know more about Europena culture than stated below:

> once a year.  Last year I went to Aachen and Amsterdam on vacation.  
> Every computer store I visited sold pirated copies of Windows XP and 
> Microsoft Office and in Amsterdam people were selling copies on the 
> street corners in the Artis District.

a) Tell MSFT about it, not us.
b) How many stores did you visit (in Amsterdam and in Aachen) and how
   many of them are there?
c) I don't believe that the average store in .at, .de or .nl sells
   pirated copies - this is as illegal here as in the US.

> The entire culture has absolutely no concept of IP rights and I was 
> amazed at how open folks are there about piracy.  If someone did that in 

You should then learn more about the difference (both factual now and
historical) between authors rights as in .at now (in .de years ago) vs
copyright in GB/US.

> the US, they'd
> be in jail.   I have lived in Germany, Italy, France, Spain, Crete, and 

The question of jailing is "illegal vs illegal" - not a moral question.

> I spent about 2 years in the UK when I was a younger man, and I have a 
> really
> good handle on the culture over there.  Even the republic countries 
> which have democratic governments are very much socialist in terms of the
> lifestyle and the governments, and the way people live, so it's no 

"Socialist" or "communist"? These are in Europe two totally different
things (though they usually share the same political color).
And it is probably better than the alternatives.

> surprise the whole concept of free software and the GPL are so natural 
> to the culture of Europe in general.

Which leads to the immediate question why the concept and license was
born in the US?

> I have been very dismayed at how FOSS has been used as a vehicle to 
> promote anti-american attitudes into our own culture.  It's sad.  I have 

Who uses it this way?

> lived in
> all these places and the only place where people have guaranteed rights 
> as individuals and true freedom is America.  I was in Germany in the late

"freedom" as "anarchy light"?

> 1970's and earlt 1980's when the Bater-Meinhoffs were killing Americans 

The Bader-Meinhoff-Gang was a very extreme left wing terrorist group
which also killed e.g. German minister. Putting this as example for
Germany is like stating that Timothy McVeigh is an average US citizen.

> in the streets and the Grune-Gehfahr (Green Party) was having 

Yes, the Green parties (at least in .at and AFAICT in .de) where a
"threat" to the old established parties since a new competitor came up
the horizon. And the tries several things (which you didn't mention) to
"fight" the new competition (without much success BTW).

> demonstrations burning effigies of Uncle Sam in the Hauptewache District 
> in Frankfurt.    This younger generation has no concept of what they are 

Sorry, no details out of my head.
But apparently some radicals where there. If they were "invited" by the
demo organisers or even organised the demo themselves, is another
question which you should answer if you bring this as an example (or
should we hunt for similar events in the US and present them as
example?).
Or did they just came to make the action and get filmed by journalists
since a peaceful demonstration for cili rights and similar doesn't get
the headlines (and Pulitzer price?) - only the action.

> supporting or how bad things can get.  It is the doom of men that they 
> forget.

Should we now start the "which country got the worst radicals in which
century" listing?

[....]
> German culture.  At any rate, Stallman needs to in the next GPL incorporate
> capitalist provisions which will allow FOSS to become a self sustaining 
> model.   The US markets are abandoning Linux as a commerical offering

You measure FOSS only on old models (and do not question these models).
Successful companies adapt to new models and who cares about the
remaining - and thus - unsuccessful ones?
Can it be more "capitalistic" (the word has probably at least as much
negative as positive meaning - and leftists probably don't agree even to
that).

> and Windows is continuing to get stronger and stronger.  It's tough

Yes, MSFTs propaganda is apparently working in the US.
And it is a pity that no one is questioning the commercial methods and
strategy of such copmpanies (and no, the point is not about "Win*
software is better or worse than free software", we are here at a much
higher layer then technical facts since technical facts are completely
irrelevant regarding these commercial methods).

	Bernd, shutting up again
-- 
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