Subject: Re: recommended mail clients [was] [PATCH] ati-agp suspend/resume
	support (try 2)
From: Lee Revell <rlrevell@joe-job.com>
To: Michael Clark <michael@metaparadigm.com>
Cc: Alistair John Strachan <s0348365@sms.ed.ac.uk>,
       Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>, Jaco Kroon <jaco@kroon.co.za>,
       linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>
In-Reply-To: <43B1D6C6.30300@metaparadigm.com>
References: <43AF7724.8090302@kroon.co.za>
	 <200512261535.09307.s0348365@sms.ed.ac.uk>
	 <1135619641.8293.50.camel@mindpipe>
	 <200512262003.38552.s0348365@sms.ed.ac.uk>
	 <1135630831.8293.89.camel@mindpipe>  <43B1D6C6.30300@metaparadigm.com>
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Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:33:52 -0500
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On Wed, 2005-12-28 at 08:05 +0800, Michael Clark wrote:
> Lee Revell wrote:
> 
> >On Mon, 2005-12-26 at 20:03 +0000, Alistair John Strachan wrote:
> >  
> >
> >>On Monday 26 December 2005 17:54, Lee Revell wrote:
> >>    
> >>
> >>>On Mon, 2005-12-26 at 15:35 +0000, Alistair John Strachan wrote:
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>>>On Monday 26 December 2005 14:38, Steven Rostedt wrote:
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>[snip]
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>>I use pine and evolution.  Pine is text based and great when I ssh into
> >>>>>my machine to work.  Evolution is slow, but plays well with pine and it
> >>>>>handles things needed for LKML very well. (the drop down menu "Normal"
> >>>>>may be changed to "Preformat", which allows of inserting text files
> >>>>>"as-is").
> >>>>>          
> >>>>>
> This is also the way to do it with Thunderbird. It will do the right
> thing (and disables all formatting changes such as line wrapping to the
> inserted text) if you select 'Preformat' before pasting in a patch - at
> least my Thunderbird 1.0.7 does this.
> 
> >>>>Dare I say it, KMail has also been doing the Right Thing for a long time.
> >>>>It will only line wrap things that you insert by typing; pastes are left
> >>>>untouched.
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>It seems that of all the popular mail clients only Thunderbird has this
> >>>problem.  AFAICT it's impossible to make it DTRT with inline patches and
> >>>even if it is the fact that most users get it wrong points to a serious
> >>>usability/UI issue.
> >>>
> >>>Would a patch to add "Don't use Thunderbird/Mozilla Mail" to
> >>>SubmittingPatches be accepted?  Then we can point the Mozilla developers
> >>>at it (they have shown zero interest in fixing the problem so far) and
> >>>hopefully this will light a fire under someone.
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>Fundamentally the issue with Thunderbird is that it line-wraps AFTER you 
> >>compose an email, not during composition. I've never understood how, or why 
> >>this is useful to the end user, except for composing HTML emails (which 
> >>should be banned anyway).
> >>    
> >>
> Thunderbird will not linewrap anything that is inserted in 'Preformat' mode.
> 
> >>Thunderbird is Yet Another mailer that could have been a good piece of 
> >>software if it hadn't attempted to be a clone of Outlook Express (defaulting 
> >>to Top Posting, HTML composition, line wrapping pastes).
> >>
> >>It's the mindset; fixing Thunderbird is probably easy, but convincing the 
> >>Mozilla developers to include such "fixes" is probably much harder.
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >Should be trivial to fix, when the user puts the editor into "Preformat"
> >mode or inserts a text file you surround it with <pre> tags.
> >  
> >
> Fix the user behaviour you mean? Get them to select 'Preformat' before
> pasting patches into Thunderbird.

I did not realize it had this mode, apparently people aren't trying very
hard!  Forget my patch then.

Lee

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