Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1751295AbWAEOVb (ORCPT ); Thu, 5 Jan 2006 09:21:31 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1751278AbWAEOVb (ORCPT ); Thu, 5 Jan 2006 09:21:31 -0500 Received: from dspnet.fr.eu.org ([213.186.44.138]:48393 "EHLO dspnet.fr.eu.org") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1751295AbWAEOV3 (ORCPT ); Thu, 5 Jan 2006 09:21:29 -0500 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 15:21:20 +0100 From: Olivier Galibert To: Jaroslav Kysela Cc: Tomasz K?oczko , Pete Zaitcev , Alistair John Strachan , Adrian Bunk , Tomasz Torcz , Jan Engelhardt , Andi Kleen , ALSA development , James@superbug.demon.co.uk, sailer@ife.ee.ethz.ch, linux-sound@vger.kernel.org, zab@zabbo.net, kyle@parisc-linux.org, parisc-linux@lists.parisc-linux.org, jgarzik@pobox.com, Thorsten Knabe , zwane@commfireservices.com, LKML Subject: Re: [OT] ALSA userspace API complexity Message-ID: <20060105142120.GA28611@dspnet.fr.eu.org> Mail-Followup-To: Olivier Galibert , Jaroslav Kysela , Tomasz K?oczko , Pete Zaitcev , Alistair John Strachan , Adrian Bunk , Tomasz Torcz , Jan Engelhardt , Andi Kleen , ALSA development , James@superbug.demon.co.uk, sailer@ife.ee.ethz.ch, linux-sound@vger.kernel.org, zab@zabbo.net, kyle@parisc-linux.org, parisc-linux@lists.parisc-linux.org, jgarzik@pobox.com, Thorsten Knabe , zwane@commfireservices.com, LKML References: <20050726150837.GT3160@stusta.de> <20060103193736.GG3831@stusta.de> <20060104030034.6b780485.zaitcev@redhat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 1555 Lines: 36 On Thu, Jan 05, 2006 at 01:23:23PM +0100, Jaroslav Kysela wrote: > It means that you are saying that kernel should be bigger and bigger. > Please, see the graphics APIs. Why we have X servers in user space (and > only some supporting code is in the kernel) then? It's because if we > would move everything into kernel it will be even more bloated. The kernel > should do really the basic things like direct hardware access, DMA > transfer etc. You plan to remove the network stack from the kernel when then? X is in user space for some rather strange values of userspace[1] for historical and political reasons, not technical ones. When performance raises its ugly head and you end up having to listen to engineers again you end up with DRI and that: Module Size Used by nvidia 3464380 12 X is a beautiful example of how things should not have been done. Its only redeeming quality is that it exists and works, and that's definitively a non-negligible one. > But it's a question, if OSS application developers take this proposal. You seem to be missing the point that the entire reason why OSS is important is that it isn't a library. OG. [1] Direct hardware access, DMA, pci enumeration, hardware reconfiguration, what a beautiful userspace we have there. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/