Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org designates 209.132.180.67 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.132.180.67;
Date:   Tue, 22 Oct 2019 10:27:16 -0400
From:   Richard Guy Briggs <rgb@redhat.com>
To:     Paul Moore <paul@paul-moore.com>
Cc:     containers@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-api@vger.kernel.org,
        Linux-Audit Mailing List <linux-audit@redhat.com>,
        linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
        netdev@vger.kernel.org, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org,
        sgrubb@redhat.com, omosnace@redhat.com, dhowells@redhat.com,
        simo@redhat.com, Eric Paris <eparis@parisplace.org>,
        Serge Hallyn <serge@hallyn.com>, ebiederm@xmission.com,
        nhorman@tuxdriver.com, Dan Walsh <dwalsh@redhat.com>,
        mpatel@redhat.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH ghak90 V7 20/21] audit: add capcontid to set contid
 outside init_user_ns
Message-ID: <20191022142716.sgxcmc27w4uaqh3u@madcap2.tricolour.ca>
References: <cover.1568834524.git.rgb@redhat.com>
 <214163d11a75126f610bcedfad67a4d89575dc77.1568834525.git.rgb@redhat.com>
 <20191019013904.uevmrzbmztsbhpnh@madcap2.tricolour.ca>
 <CAHC9VhRPygA=LsHLUqv+K=ouAiPFJ6fb2_As=OT-_zB7kGc_aQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20191021213824.6zti5ndxu7sqs772@madcap2.tricolour.ca>
 <CAHC9VhRdNXsY4neJpSoNyJoAVEoiEc2oW5kSscF99tjmoQAxFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20191021235734.mgcjotdqoe73e4ha@madcap2.tricolour.ca>
 <CAHC9VhSiwnY-+2awxvGeO4a0NgfVkOPd8fzzBVujp=HtjskTuQ@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CAHC9VhSiwnY-+2awxvGeO4a0NgfVkOPd8fzzBVujp=HtjskTuQ@mail.gmail.com>
User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline
Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org
Precedence: bulk

On 2019-10-21 20:31, Paul Moore wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 7:58 PM Richard Guy Briggs <rgb@redhat.com> wrote=
:
> > On 2019-10-21 17:43, Paul Moore wrote:
> > > On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 5:38 PM Richard Guy Briggs <rgb@redhat.com> w=
rote:
> > > > On 2019-10-21 15:53, Paul Moore wrote:
> > > > > On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 9:39 PM Richard Guy Briggs <rgb@redhat.co=
m> wrote:
> > > > > > On 2019-09-18 21:22, Richard Guy Briggs wrote:
> > > > > > > Provide a mechanism similar to CAP_AUDIT_CONTROL to explicitl=
y give a
> > > > > > > process in a non-init user namespace the capability to set au=
dit
> > > > > > > container identifiers.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Use audit netlink message types AUDIT_GET_CAPCONTID 1027 and
> > > > > > > AUDIT_SET_CAPCONTID 1028.  The message format includes the da=
ta
> > > > > > > structure:
> > > > > > > struct audit_capcontid_status {
> > > > > > >         pid_t   pid;
> > > > > > >         u32     enable;
> > > > > > > };
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Paul, can I get a review of the general idea here to see if you=
're ok
> > > > > > with this way of effectively extending CAP_AUDIT_CONTROL for th=
e sake of
> > > > > > setting contid from beyond the init user namespace where capabl=
e() can't
> > > > > > reach and ns_capable() is meaningless for these purposes?
> > > > >
> > > > > I think my previous comment about having both the procfs and netl=
ink
> > > > > interfaces apply here.  I don't see why we need two different API=
s at
> > > > > the start; explain to me why procfs isn't sufficient.  If the arg=
ument
> > > > > is simply the desire to avoid mounting procfs in the container, h=
ow
> > > > > many container orchestrators can function today without a valid /=
proc?
> > > >
> > > > Ok, sorry, I meant to address that question from a previous patch
> > > > comment at the same time.
> > > >
> > > > It was raised by Eric Biederman that the proc filesystem interface =
for
> > > > audit had its limitations and he had suggested an audit netlink
> > > > interface made more sense.
> > >
> > > I'm sure you've got it handy, so I'm going to be lazy and ask: archiv=
e
> > > pointer to Eric's comments?  Just a heads-up, I'm really *not* a fan
> > > of using the netlink interface for this, so unless Eric presents a
> > > super compelling reason for why we shouldn't use procfs I'm inclined
> > > to stick with /proc.
> >
> > It was actually a video call with Eric and Steve where that was
> > recommended, so I can't provide you with any first-hand communication
> > about it.  I'll get more details...
>=20
> Yeah, that sort of information really needs to be on the list.
>=20
> > So, with that out of the way, could you please comment on the general
> > idea of what was intended to be the central idea of this mechanism to b=
e
> > able to nest containers beyond the initial user namespace (knowing that
> > a /proc interface is available and the audit netlink interface isn't
> > necessary for it to work and the latter can be easily removed)?
>=20
> I'm not entirely clear what you are asking about, are you asking why I
> care about nesting container orchestrators?  Simply put, it is not
> uncommon for the LXC/LXD folks to see nested container orchestrators,
> so I felt it was important to support that use case.  When we
> originally started this effort we probably should have done a better
> job reaching out to the LXC/LXD folks, we may have caught this
> earlier.  Regardless, we caught it, and it looks like we are on our
> way to supporting it (that's good).

I'm not asking why you care about container orchestrators.

> Are you asking why I prefer the procfs approach to setting/getting the
> audit container ID?  For one, it makes it easier for a LSM to enforce
> the audit container ID operations independent of the other audit
> control APIs.  It also provides a simpler interface for container
> orchestrators.  Both seem like desirable traits as far as I'm
> concerned.

I'd like to leave the proc/netlink decision/debate out of this
discussion, though it does need to happen and I was hoping that would
happen on the loginuid/sessionid proc/netlink patch thread.

I'd like your perspective on how the capcontid feature was implemented
(aside from the proc/netlink api issue which was intended to be
consistent across loginuid/sessionid/contid/capcontid).  Do you see this
feature as potentially solving the nested container issue in child user
namespaces?

> > > > The intent was to switch to the audit netlink interface for contid,
> > > > capcontid and to add the audit netlink interface for loginuid and
> > > > sessionid while deprecating the proc interface for loginuid and
> > > > sessionid.  This was alluded to in the cover letter, but not very c=
lear,
> > > > I'm afraid.  I have patches to remove the contid and loginuid/sessi=
onid
> > > > interfaces in another tree which is why I had forgotten to outline =
that
> > > > plan more explicitly in the cover letter.
>=20
> paul moore

- RGB

--
Richard Guy Briggs <rgb@redhat.com>
Sr. S/W Engineer, Kernel Security, Base Operating Systems
Remote, Ottawa, Red Hat Canada
IRC: rgb, SunRaycer
Voice: +1.647.777.2635, Internal: (81) 32635