Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S932324AbWBVQLl (ORCPT ); Wed, 22 Feb 2006 11:11:41 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S932340AbWBVQLk (ORCPT ); Wed, 22 Feb 2006 11:11:40 -0500 Received: from pentafluge.infradead.org ([213.146.154.40]:39626 "EHLO pentafluge.infradead.org") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S932324AbWBVQLk (ORCPT ); Wed, 22 Feb 2006 11:11:40 -0500 Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 16:11:33 +0000 From: Christoph Hellwig To: Arjan van de Ven Cc: Linus Torvalds , Kay Sievers , Pekka J Enberg , Greg KH , Adrian Bunk , Robert Love , Andrew Morton , Linux Kernel Mailing List , John Stultz Subject: Re: 2.6.16-rc4: known regressions Message-ID: <20060222161133.GA18059@infradead.org> Mail-Followup-To: Christoph Hellwig , Arjan van de Ven , Linus Torvalds , Kay Sievers , Pekka J Enberg , Greg KH , Adrian Bunk , Robert Love , Andrew Morton , Linux Kernel Mailing List , John Stultz References: <84144f020602190306o3149d51by82b8ccc6108af012@mail.gmail.com> <20060219145442.GA4971@stusta.de> <1140383653.11403.8.camel@localhost> <20060220010205.GB22738@suse.de> <1140562261.11278.6.camel@localhost> <20060221225718.GA12480@vrfy.org> <20060222152743.GA22281@vrfy.org> <1140624187.2979.38.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1140624187.2979.38.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-SRS-Rewrite: SMTP reverse-path rewritten from by pentafluge.infradead.org See http://www.infradead.org/rpr.html Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 1516 Lines: 34 On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 05:03:07PM +0100, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > On Wed, 2006-02-22 at 07:44 -0800, Linus Torvalds wrote: > > > [snip lots of good words about that breaking userspace ABIs is really > horrible] > > I absolutely agree with what you say. HOWEVER hal is also terminally > broken. The thing they depend on is a *config option*. If they can't > deal with that config option not being enabled in a graceful way, that's > a series malfunction. > > > (and no this is not an excuse for breaking userspace ABIs at all, > although one can argue that this removing is almost the same as > disabling the config option) And to continue the rant: the broken mount uevent feature (which can't work right) got in without any serious review through the driver model tree. just as all those break udev/etc patches that cause all these userland breakages for those people brave enough to use udev and surrounding bits. Folks, we need to stop breaking sysfs interface all the time. Having attributes on objects is real nice from many perspectives, but it's also a burden because the internal object model is now seen by the outside world. That means anything involving sysfs needs a careful design not random patching as the driver model core people appear to do. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/