Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 20:28:22 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 20:28:13 -0400 Received: from unthought.net ([212.97.129.24]:35208 "HELO mail.unthought.net") by vger.kernel.org with SMTP id ; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 20:28:05 -0400 Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 02:28:39 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jakob_=D8stergaard?= To: Tim Jansen Cc: lgb@lgb.hu, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: LPP (was: The new X-Kernel !) Message-ID: <20011022022839.A8452@unthought.net> Mail-Followup-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jakob_=D8stergaard?= , Tim Jansen , lgb@lgb.hu, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org In-Reply-To: <20011021220346.D19390@vega.digitel2002.hu> <000801c15a78$b79a4280$150a10ac@gearboxsoftware.com> <20011021235311.C21640@vega.digitel2002.hu> <15vQtM-22TOdsC@fmrl02.sul.t-online.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <15vQtM-22TOdsC@fmrl02.sul.t-online.com>; from tim@tjansen.de on Mon, Oct 22, 2001 at 12:19:07AM +0200 Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Mon, Oct 22, 2001 at 12:19:07AM +0200, Tim Jansen wrote: > On Sunday 21 October 2001 23:53, G?bor L?n?rt wrote: > > But for being serious ... For example you can build SECURITY into an OS. > > You can install "firewalls" to Windows. And that sw component may ask > > user that it detects something which MAY cause problems, and it asks > > user if this task is allowed or not. And most of "stupid-users" don't > > even read what message said! And if so, it's not helpful at all, since > > the security on answering a question is to KNOW what does it covers. > > But part of this problem is that users get too much information that they > don't understand, so they are getting used to ignore it. What you have to do > to make the system easier to use is reduce the amount of information and make > it easier to understand. The boot messages of the kernel are certainly much > more than a regular user needs (and I am speaking those people who are > currently using Windows or Macs, not Linux) and not very helpful for them. > How would hiding that information make the system "easier to use" ? They can't interact with the boot process anyway - but they can call their sysadmin and say "it said 'kernel panic'" and he can make them read up the last few lines on the screen. I've done that successfully with the mail-relay/proxy/router/fileserver at my parent's house, with my mother at the keyboard ! She writes books about gardens for a living. If all she could tell me was "well there's a penguin with a line under it that doesn't move", I'd be pretty stuck. Really, treating people like idiots will get you idiots. I don't believe there are that many idiots around - but some computer litterates seem to have the idea that computer illiterates are best treated as drooling morons. Those poor people will never know, because they never get a chance. This is *not* doing them a favour. "User friendliness is often confused with designing software for idiots" - me ;) Now don't think that I'm against nice user interfaces. Not at all. I'm just against over-protecting people from the real world. Don't hide generally useful information, that's all. -- ................................................................ : jakob@unthought.net : And I see the elder races, : :.........................: putrid forms of man : : Jakob ?stergaard : See him rise and claim the earth, : : OZ9ABN : his downfall is at hand. : :.........................:............{Konkhra}...............: - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/