Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1752142AbWCNDhg (ORCPT ); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:37:36 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1752140AbWCNDhg (ORCPT ); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:37:36 -0500 Received: from bayc1-pasmtp03.bayc1.hotmail.com ([65.54.191.163]:50060 "EHLO BAYC1-PASMTP03.bayc1.hotmail.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S932536AbWCNDhf (ORCPT ); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:37:35 -0500 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [69.156.138.66] X-Originating-Email: [seanlkml@sympatico.ca] Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:35:20 -0500 From: sean To: jonathan@jonmasters.org Cc: jonmasters@gmail.com, anshu.pg@gmail.com, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [future of drivers?] a proposal for binary drivers. Message-Id: <20060313223520.113bc6d0.seanlkml@sympatico.ca> In-Reply-To: <35fb2e590603131902i66afe836y6653a20405bc5818@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060308102731.GO27946@ftp.linux.org.uk> <1141815315.10151.0.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> <35fb2e590603131902i66afe836y6653a20405bc5818@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 2.0.4 (GTK+ 2.8.14; i386-redhat-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Mar 2006 03:37:34.0692 (UTC) FILETIME=[A1DB2A40:01C64718] Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 1948 Lines: 39 On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 03:02:12 +0000 "Jon Masters" wrote: > It strikes me that this thread isn't really about binary-only drivers > and that whole ugly discussion. What it's really about is getting > third party drivers to work with Linux more easily. That conversation > does involve the "out of tree vs. upstream" question, but mention of > binary-only drivers actually only serves to cloud the real issue here. But that debate has been settled. The only possible solution to making 3rd party drivers easier to use is to make a stable driver-ABI. And the reason that isn't going to happen has been explained many times already. Linux is designed around having all drivers in the source tree, which removes the problems experienced by out-of-tree drivers. The pain felt by those promoting and using 3rd party drivers is brought on _themselves_ by being unable or unwilling to adapt to the Linux environment. Demanding that Linux adapt to the needs of 3rd party drivers ignores the fact that this will just shift the pain onto the core kernel developers. That pain would ultimately be felt by all Linux users who would then get a kernel which is artifically constrained by all these old interfaces. It would destroy one of the key advantages open source offerings have over the closed source. In other words, it would do more harm than good. In the end, most of the demands for Linux to "adapt" come from people who really don't appreciate or embrace open source. I think kernel developers are protecting Linux (and thus its users) by ignoring these often vitriolic demands for it to conform to the way things are done in the closed source world. Cheers, Sean - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/