Received: by 2002:a25:683:0:0:0:0:0 with SMTP id 125csp814682ybg; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 13:37:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwNDDaVxml4tp2g2TS5//IC4HqG0I4E73ydbPMQ5tx5OyUHHg/KgOmLex9tTQmERWE/okfc X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:1752:: with SMTP id v18mr29004545edx.107.1591735037406; Tue, 09 Jun 2020 13:37:17 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1591735037; cv=pass; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=hmiKNcF0G6JD2EIh6MrFUZf//KHQLjWUqbGavEbk5fSW/3yTYkzDIGuu4OLNTKhED1 enpxa+uff8t9a2eHjw71pb+qqWDZu7HuwDqwowP2pYvUGLF+qaAz36ktKs+wBWv4Iwwv t25+7dYVbF9x1Nm2UCN369euaWkLpEQHKtSsh3iaY/QJKlWRBQwzadGzWiwz8kv9DuNF 7KDDII5rFjHajE3xcuq1Gcuf32wX0tYE0YGkpULZCxxH6ax9sRh2R6fcqFu5eHIuYHV4 HDmNFy549FZ6o2f93pR0/nylVecExgjdljqtZAOW+8UmgzH/BtN/yrTI3l4oGMHy6YRf IhRg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=list-id:precedence:sender:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :content-id:user-agent:content-language:accept-language:in-reply-to :references:message-id:date:thread-index:thread-topic:subject:cc:to :from:dkim-signature:ironport-sdr:ironport-sdr; bh=Ng8j319KTrrE0Q6HLwN1cowq+HE3YxJ1Km6XHWvIpKw=; b=PFKU6Ue4XpTcDN8pUaB/9Q5klDF1sKLWc/M+qsAyz+O1E2wVuyPmDY78NxK3cWO84Y drFQEyhn6IpdbafO6yA5DiDeK7cdltMCXm8EZZPbTyR8brsAEJFDyH86DenGoNN6Ds42 1etrwrttKSbY26TSFRET12LxcIBdcfzJdkQuOSvL5QkEvcbIsgNVFOeule4COZpYydyG 55WyXtFcXxHovCl+KEazjMmqDECve4Uu9tK0O7dH2cRYCwxWVluWnwxvkLZAxUM5CxxV GgO2vAt1nhtz1E3694p2PpoQNpB055ag1XclZ88wsxWIvEEwvO4tTB9rLmm0uw5WoIlk WybQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@intel.onmicrosoft.com header.s=selector2-intel-onmicrosoft-com header.b=nXivb8BG; arc=pass (i=1 spf=pass spfdomain=intel.com dkim=pass dkdomain=intel.com dmarc=pass fromdomain=intel.com); spf=pass (google.com: domain of linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org designates 23.128.96.18 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=intel.com Return-Path: Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org. [23.128.96.18]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id a19si10068904ejf.724.2020.06.09.13.36.54; Tue, 09 Jun 2020 13:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org designates 23.128.96.18 as permitted sender) client-ip=23.128.96.18; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@intel.onmicrosoft.com header.s=selector2-intel-onmicrosoft-com header.b=nXivb8BG; arc=pass (i=1 spf=pass spfdomain=intel.com dkim=pass dkdomain=intel.com dmarc=pass fromdomain=intel.com); spf=pass (google.com: domain of linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org designates 23.128.96.18 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=intel.com Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S2389236AbgFITa4 (ORCPT + 99 others); Tue, 9 Jun 2020 15:30:56 -0400 Received: from mga12.intel.com ([192.55.52.136]:45308 "EHLO mga12.intel.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1728679AbgFITay (ORCPT ); Tue, 9 Jun 2020 15:30:54 -0400 IronPort-SDR: R4lIrMH1fjl2sLDc77VuumpJBtAgYRZpGcwOASqctkdx62sS4jZFu99zt1b/DdtadFjGTGKjLG 2uMf+MwXcrfw== X-Amp-Result: SKIPPED(no attachment in message) X-Amp-File-Uploaded: False Received: from orsmga008.jf.intel.com ([10.7.209.65]) by fmsmga106.fm.intel.com with ESMTP/TLS/ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 09 Jun 2020 12:30:53 -0700 IronPort-SDR: XcHdzAUjgcIQHtmmTnIckvf2Q4YfKoAJFpFpP8BjN2dTqIlFjNike9eDRf227ItDY9yyi8fkBx +Cjkgupf1Phw== X-ExtLoop1: 1 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.73,493,1583222400"; d="scan'208";a="306358535" Received: from orsmsx101.amr.corp.intel.com ([10.22.225.128]) by orsmga008.jf.intel.com with ESMTP; 09 Jun 2020 12:30:53 -0700 Received: from orsmsx601.amr.corp.intel.com (10.22.229.14) by ORSMSX101.amr.corp.intel.com (10.22.225.128) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.439.0; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 12:30:53 -0700 Received: from orsmsx606.amr.corp.intel.com (10.22.229.19) by ORSMSX601.amr.corp.intel.com (10.22.229.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1713.5; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 12:30:52 -0700 Received: from ORSEDG002.ED.cps.intel.com (10.7.248.5) by orsmsx606.amr.corp.intel.com (10.22.229.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256) id 15.1.1713.5 via Frontend Transport; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 12:30:52 -0700 Received: from NAM12-BN8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (104.47.55.175) by edgegateway.intel.com (134.134.137.101) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.439.0; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 12:30:52 -0700 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=M5MjZlRx2bWhCbidonPMnvh0DcjQ/jXo0N+oJE7w026M1TawbV+pvf42Kajlbc5jh3GDBpMmDbyyfFa495QjyDiT7bicTBCVHVySnEBoY3BI6By2ahJG+6U8JhvjJnGOFmfNqgMY7rvQPS4dwTeICZ6O1Q/PrtaO5EVfnR5P8u9pMHS1G7+9kEEy3CWSXKDJPaNxABc6nCmhKOtCbALSiTqxu/2lOAtfPWjgreSMoKfggM3h0XqqE24oCEfvlJk633glQ3rbkX9FHLXFUNiGxyA8AcifZuB4Dv9EyLULv4+EEyRZSd3HQU3ypPvKVYMrKqcv6bec+XKwvUbYc8UD+Q== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=Ng8j319KTrrE0Q6HLwN1cowq+HE3YxJ1Km6XHWvIpKw=; b=ncKRl/Vblw/Qm9HRpcJGre4y1DUWonAdw6gkfivNLxPCSmQ+JG2fY9O+kSI4sYHaZFTHuQ7et5VcT5fdtpZKkSxrVGn9QthtgtXyvX0syz8kFmN6tum6RqZcf6jNcTeN1pdZhtxGAd72H+NAYD9I+fwzUOytuBvmtwenAg3byuyZtmXW6mXpczf+IBw9UUtsAIJmXs1bOFZfqZ44ljnPCtUR4mHsvMXA/ntgFMa7ZgfqJew24DQwNyXSflFrrWYhBIDIABDvS1DujkxCu5eggyH0yBxuY096etAa+VXHv2j29PpnNXvqRTdqkf1zYU9M7mDL87/R2BkHCIJKz+IXWA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=intel.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=intel.com; dkim=pass header.d=intel.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=intel.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-intel-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=Ng8j319KTrrE0Q6HLwN1cowq+HE3YxJ1Km6XHWvIpKw=; b=nXivb8BGZaM1KhueGxdUZBv/ObSCVaXV89CEd0iT6oNguUtn+/1OGbNPt4dx21fe5R6T5Cukulzh+Rhufvb8AH1PN/cbJq2HTfr6vyTeuaX4N7MixQqLvknffDIabAS1XsxCghK8wCKHLMcCSB5aO7CYEUbyLWV4jnWW5KDZB5M= Received: from BN6PR11MB4132.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:405:81::10) by BN6PR11MB1938.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:404:105::11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3066.20; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 19:30:51 +0000 Received: from BN6PR11MB4132.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::2d67:42cc:d74f:6e4f]) by BN6PR11MB4132.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::2d67:42cc:d74f:6e4f%7]) with mapi id 15.20.3066.023; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 19:30:51 +0000 From: "Williams, Dan J" To: "stephen@networkplumber.org" , "davem@davemloft.net" CC: "corbet@lwn.net" , "andrew@lunn.ch" , "amitc@mellanox.com" , "david@protonic.nl" , "linville@tuxdriver.com" , "marex@denx.de" , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" , "linux@armlinux.org.uk" , "petrm@mellanox.com" , "hkallweit1@gmail.com" , "kernel@pengutronix.de" , "christian.herber@nxp.com" , "mkubecek@suse.cz" , "kuba@kernel.org" , "o.rempel@pengutronix.de" , "netdev@vger.kernel.org" , "mkl@pengutronix.de" , "f.fainelli@gmail.com" Subject: Re: [PATCH ethtool v1] netlink: add master/slave configuration support Thread-Topic: [PATCH ethtool v1] netlink: add master/slave configuration support Thread-Index: AQHWPpR7OD1wKnaFXUKDw1wTopujAQ== Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2020 19:30:50 +0000 Message-ID: <4d664ff641dbf3aeab1ecd5eacda220dab9d7d17.camel@intel.com> References: <20200607153019.3c8d6650@hermes.lan> <20200607.164532.964293508393444353.davem@davemloft.net> <20200609101935.5716b3bd@hermes.lan> <20200609.113633.1866761141966326637.davem@davemloft.net> In-Reply-To: <20200609.113633.1866761141966326637.davem@davemloft.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Evolution 3.32.5 (3.32.5-1.fc30) authentication-results: networkplumber.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;networkplumber.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=intel.com; x-originating-ip: [192.55.52.218] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 1887d585-c6d2-45fc-864d-08d80cab9e79 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BN6PR11MB1938: x-ld-processed: 46c98d88-e344-4ed4-8496-4ed7712e255d,ExtAddr,ExtFwd x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-forefront-prvs: 042957ACD7 x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: EM+HKH/vRt80C+h146MPTOGi0JACaa8v4QYqswBqLJS1a+YZUTgbdAEo14ihEVHvWxw8m6hyoNNFQKuCtTvWarS59VF8WQiheFCo+2Xp+H1gccWJyF1N6FBM4gQNaq7NJ9jj8hyOo+gqTGdPWN1WVIpb1UR5aDp+Jg367yGuNwFoATl2JWlZ85AlV091yhB6d2mWtnegOCEGepbiG2IeU0Q6vuDOLeTxltyd4WTzeN2P49gMMrUybGEz8EpU9k3hzHjwFxCuJZ6p5OZOfHaSPy2NKCfag0j12Lgrmy6jHehxZukrGqG1unYhZA5GHLZ4tz584z+oXVpilAFb8LHVzg== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255;CTRY:;LANG:en;SCL:1;SRV:;IPV:NLI;SFV:NSPM;H:BN6PR11MB4132.namprd11.prod.outlook.com;PTR:;CAT:NONE;SFTY:;SFS:(376002)(136003)(396003)(39850400004)(366004)(346002)(316002)(36756003)(83380400001)(6486002)(2906002)(5660300002)(8936002)(76116006)(91956017)(4326008)(8676002)(186003)(6506007)(66946007)(7416002)(66446008)(66556008)(478600001)(110136005)(6512007)(64756008)(26005)(54906003)(66476007)(86362001)(71200400001)(2616005);DIR:OUT;SFP:1102; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: OAEaRBRZz5inXH/1iAX39vcU+ddX7vVSnaZ/SaBp3WIVvlVKLIwc9Djxbd5U8SfbZ//HDoA490yxYC9XkU2QkssWfLrSbS0ipBL+WeV+IWSU70oHgiXYG3IMN5EN7Tds7ahKUB5eQA8MTRekgT1kx4j2tDkAsqJvONq5VRUIXVPcGdEd2WG0YhMVlOEoIF/lJlebWQt8lFLltrGAo2iiE8prz004hYq3qJYYH0o/gXD0D1sUg07DzyjIYneARM+9obKS0/1HvUyNp+95M2WqQLdKFdCGZ4Q636tVL2pXQUFbt4QI+ILcFg+B2mv9XXeAXPasWbOl+77sK4k2UWmIr7d+KuHXYuhkE0S6V4Iomr6R9ifTx52q799yeQpZSVq6ppgkj70/rNl5QjNkB3IhL3JdICc0uwGqY97fHh1nS4ebhL6GEXcnhv1BucvaXEs2p9r0XLClUJo7l3UsZdpkeOlmj4o9fVvyQQhz97D8QYo= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-7" Content-ID: <0360B25E816BA441BAFD0F63CF3D4BA5@namprd11.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 1887d585-c6d2-45fc-864d-08d80cab9e79 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Jun 2020 19:30:50.8231 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 46c98d88-e344-4ed4-8496-4ed7712e255d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: UfFnADy84izWNmZ5Z3jDFhjgTvSYk3PWwF5qcAvg/cWJGKuIeWXBmVYPNersvc8siv1fF7/RNImwqp4GbEw1aHBknW3gjSSl93MoZsDpr8s= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN6PR11MB1938 X-OriginatorOrg: intel.com Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Tue, 2020-06-09 at 11:36 -0700, David Miller wrote: +AD4- From: Stephen Hemminger +ADw-stephen+AEA-networkplumber.org+AD4- +AD4- Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2020 10:19:35 -0700 +AD4-=20 +AD4- +AD4- Yes, words do matter and convey a lot of implied connotation an= d +AD4- +AD4- meaning. +AD4-=20 +AD4- What is your long term plan? Will you change all of the UAPI for +AD4- bonding for example? The long term plan in my view includes talking with standards bodies to move new content to, for example, master/subordinate. In other words, practical forward steps, not retroactively changing interfaces. +AD4- Or will we have a partial solution to the problem? Partial steps toward better inclusion are meaningful. The root problem is of course much larger than a few changes to technical terminology could ever solve, but solving +ACo-that+ACo- problem = is not the goal. The goal is to make the kernel community as productive as possible and if the antropomorphic association of +ACI-slave+ACI- can be replaced with a term that maintains technical meaning it makes kernel- work that much more approachable. I recall one of Ingo's explanations of how broken whitespace can make patches that much harder to read and take him out of the +ACI-zone+ACI- of reviewing code. +ACI-Slave+ACI- is already having that speed bump affect on= the community. If we can replace it without losing meaning and improving the effectiveness of contributors I think the Linux kernel project is better for it.