Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1751101AbWC1PgB (ORCPT ); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:36:01 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1751066AbWC1PgA (ORCPT ); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:36:00 -0500 Received: from MAIL.13thfloor.at ([212.16.62.50]:22402 "EHLO mail.13thfloor.at") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1751097AbWC1Pf7 (ORCPT ); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:35:59 -0500 Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 17:35:58 +0200 From: Herbert Poetzl To: Nick Piggin Cc: Kirill Korotaev , "Eric W. Biederman" , haveblue@us.ibm.com, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, devel@openvz.org, serue@us.ibm.com, akpm@osdl.org, sam@vilain.net, Alexey Kuznetsov , Pavel Emelianov , Stanislav Protassov Subject: Re: [RFC] Virtualization steps Message-ID: <20060328153558.GF14576@MAIL.13thfloor.at> Mail-Followup-To: Nick Piggin , Kirill Korotaev , "Eric W. Biederman" , haveblue@us.ibm.com, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, devel@openvz.org, serue@us.ibm.com, akpm@osdl.org, sam@vilain.net, Alexey Kuznetsov , Pavel Emelianov , Stanislav Protassov References: <44242A3F.1010307@sw.ru> <44242D4D.40702@yahoo.com.au> <4428FB90.5000601@sw.ru> <4428FEA5.9020808@yahoo.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4428FEA5.9020808@yahoo.com.au> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 5444 Lines: 167 On Tue, Mar 28, 2006 at 07:15:17PM +1000, Nick Piggin wrote: > Kirill Korotaev wrote: > > > >Nick, will be glad to shed some light on it. > > > > Thanks very much Kirill. > > I don't think I'm qualified to make any decisions about this, > so I don't want to detract from the real discussions, but I > just had a couple more questions: > > >First of all, what it does which low level virtualization can't: > >- it allows to run 100 containers on 1GB RAM > > (it is called containers, VE - Virtual Environments, > > VPS - Virtual Private Servers). > >- it has no much overhead (<1-2%), which is unavoidable with hardware > > virtualization. For example, Xen has >20% overhead on disk I/O. > > Are any future hardware solutions likely to improve these problems? not really, but as you know, "640K ought to be enough for anybody", so maybe future hardware developments will make shared resources possible (with different kernels) > >OS kernel virtualization > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Is this considered secure enough that multiple untrusted VEs are run > on production systems? definitely! there are many, many, hosting providers using exactly this technology to provide Virutal Private Servers for their customers, of course, in production > What kind of users want this, who can't use alternatives like real > VMs? well, the same users who do not want to use Bochs for emulating a PC on a PC, when they can use UML for example, because it's much faster and easier to use ... aside from that, Linux-VServer for example, is not only designed to create complete virtual servers, it also works for service separation and increasing security for many applications, like for example: - test environments (one guest per distro) - service separation (one service per 'container') - resource management and accounting > >Summary of previous discussions on LKML > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Have their been any discussions between the groups pushing this > virtualization, and ... yes, the discussions are ongoing ... maybe to clarify the situation for the folks not involved (projects in alphabetical order): FreeVPS (Free Virtual Private Server Solution): =============================================== [http://www.freevps.com/] not pushing for inclusion, early Linux-VServer spinoff, partially maintained but they seem to have other interrests lately Alex Lyashkov (FreeVPS kernel maintainer) [Positive Software Corporation http://www.freevps.com/] BSD Jail LSM (Linux-Jails security module): =========================================== [http://kerneltrap.org/node/3823] Serge E. Hallyn (Patch/Module maintainer) [IBM] interested in some kind of mainline solution Dave Hansen (IBM Linux Technology Center) interested in virtualization for context/container migration Linux-VServer (community project, maintained): ============================================== [http://linux-vserver.org/] Jacques Gelinas (previous VServer maintainer) not pushing for inclusion Herbert Poetzl (Linux-VServer kernel maintainer) not pushing for inclusion, but I want to make damn sure that there does not come bloat into the kernel and the mainline effords will be usable for Linux-VServer and similar ... Sam Vilain (Refactoring Linux-VServer patches) [Catalyst http://catalyst.net.nz/] trying hard to provide a simple/minimalistic version of Linux-VServer for mainline many others, not really pushing anything here :) OpenVZ (open project, maintained, subset of Virtuozzo(tm)): =========================================================== [http://openvz.org/] Kir Kolyshkin (OpenVZ maintainer): [SWsoft http://www.swsoft.com I gues?] maybe pushing for inclusion ... Kirill Korotaev (OpenVZ/Virtuozzo kernel developer?) [SWsoft http://www.swsoft.com] heavily pushing for inclusion ... Alexey Kuznetsov (Chief Software Engineer) [SWsoft http://www.swsoft.com] not pushing but supporting company interrests PID Virtualization (kernel branch for inclusion): ================================================= Eric W. Biederman (branch developer/maintainer) [XMission http://xmission.com/] Virtuozzo(tm) (Commercial solution form SWsoft): ================================================ [http://www.virtuozzo.com/] not involved yet, except via OpenVZ Stanislav Protassov (Director of Engineering) [SWsoft http://www.swsoft.com] A ton of IBM and VZ folks are not listed here, but I guess you can figure who is who from the email addresses there are also a bunch of folks from Columbia and Princeton university interested and/or involved in kernel level virtualization and context migration. please extend this list where appropriate, I'm pretty sure I forgot at least five important/involved persons > important kernel developers who are not part of a virtualization > effort? no idea, probably none for now ... > Ie. is there any consensus about the future of these patches? what patches? what future? HTC, Herbert > Thanks, > Nick > > -- > SUSE Labs, Novell Inc. > Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/