Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1751062AbWEFSQV (ORCPT ); Sat, 6 May 2006 14:16:21 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1751066AbWEFSQV (ORCPT ); Sat, 6 May 2006 14:16:21 -0400 Received: from smtp102.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.201]:58477 "HELO smtp102.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com") by vger.kernel.org with SMTP id S1751062AbWEFSQU (ORCPT ); Sat, 6 May 2006 14:16:20 -0400 From: David Brownell To: Matt Mackall Subject: Re: [PATCH 8/14] random: Remove SA_SAMPLE_RANDOM from USB gadget drivers Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 11:16:16 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.7.1 Cc: Denis Vlasenko , Andrew Morton , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org References: <9.420169009@selenic.com> <200605061407.02737.vda@ilport.com.ua> In-Reply-To: <200605061407.02737.vda@ilport.com.ua> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200605061116.18274.david-b@pacbell.net> Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 2290 Lines: 56 On Saturday 06 May 2006 4:07 am, Denis Vlasenko wrote: > On Friday 05 May 2006 19:42, Matt Mackall wrote: > > Remove SA_SAMPLE_RANDOM from USB gadget drivers It's conventional to post USB patches to linux-usb-devel, or at least to CC that list. > > There's no a priori reason to think that USB device interrupts will > > contain "entropy" as defined/required by /dev/random. In fact, most > > operations will be streaming and bandwidth- or CPU-limited. > > /dev/random needs unpredictable inputs such as human interaction or > > chaotic physical processes like turbulence manifested in disk seek > > times. And that'd be why you removed that SAMPLE_RANDOM from the Lubbock VBUS irqs ... which come from users connecting (by hand!) a USB cable. :) You shouldn't add spaces before labels, or change indents from pure-tab to tabs-plus-four-spaces. Admittedly OMAP _now_ has access to the FIPS-certified hardware RNG, so for that platform it's hard to justify needing other entropy sources. But on the other hand, DMA completion IRQs aren't exactly predictable either, and it doesn't necessarily hurt to salt a high entropy pool with some less-high entropy inputs. > Come on, let's get real. A few low bits of TSC are random enough > (for just about any interrupt source). > > Attackers will probably look for easier ways to hack your crypto > than predicting /dev/random. I'm not sure I'd go that far. But I'd agree that this particular patch should not be merged. Reasonable people could have arguments about the quality of a given entropy source ... and the SA_SAMPLE_RANDOM mechanism has no way to indicate that quality, thereby wrongly implying that all interrupts have the same entropy contribution. A few Kbytes/second is very different from a few bits per hour. But I disagree with the blanket assertion that only high quality crypto-ready RNG sources should ever be provided ... and that lower quality sources are useless. Sure it helps if attackers need extra hours to make the attack, but extra minutes help too. - Dave - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/