Received: by 2002:a05:6a10:16a7:0:0:0:0 with SMTP id gp39csp1745648pxb; Fri, 20 Nov 2020 18:55:55 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx8dNhIiqkMTOiTNpFKFLD5EY3HaqFqEsnIAmIq82QgL3/+KLK3UcXWf/f+likvmH6fffKB X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:86cf:: with SMTP id j15mr35911190ejy.260.1605927355170; Fri, 20 Nov 2020 18:55:55 -0800 (PST) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1605927355; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=vVDd/i9sos4ygZUmHOpPph71Gko3UezSQPzLX0/kXH0R/6CbGUtYC6n/orT+qAeEhh vdQpt17tbIU7WZyLYpRoRt9VrSVohhJxM7ywD1iSqW9/eOnN53KwuOkBa7Vj1/Wab8Qz JGHNq16scNxR1aEgsoHD1x6PpKpEIi7wfZL3WZtzdkP/BzyDx26yXNCnDSxfQVNkWouZ 4/Q1F9XuVc+jq0Y1b52IGd1vE1sCBQXTq6asm7E0yrUaYYoLLAZvMAUIoleK9W/SxVMB +8FzKzQ1rfhHlofhCxzRD8iOyd1H05GuUEWi1uMl+2ghi3dCL0jEGI67C2C0kFkXx+uW +20w== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=list-id:precedence:content-transfer-encoding:content-language :in-reply-to:mime-version:user-agent:date:message-id:subject:from :references:cc:to:dkim-signature:dkim-signature; bh=Ou73bD4f45P9uvVKv0KtV27VfJnt6NKTFMndwelV6do=; b=PsUK8rkJjk/gFZxkNENFEcZL607OSg7lqzQiwnwcyhZvWVG8ZXDFmC6TkdWDybKkPN MU+ZRTO3H0fV5atf/NXhyzxRbCsv50mJ8J82EKfB6QhQLpGs1dHQHzybe486VS++U7Tq glG2D6Q6NEbWlw3evFbJJTLvodOmrA6CGJ7WXU1Pypesm50jI93QexpNGTKREf+Yc8a3 U8GN8aIFeCqro323KvWWe1nCii3QiutahX8CbibY0woQVSyvMvVcIfMuqlRkb1AAf47/ Wv2A9+Lj9XSoj52Dt/L3zbBIIA5sh4Q4WETQk+WVFQcqX2wIgCJ0eo3afdjS+OudTl+6 Q3hw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@sholland.org header.s=fm1 header.b=MSULuAWf; dkim=pass header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm1 header.b=sAVWfcR6; spf=pass (google.com: domain of linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org designates 23.128.96.18 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Return-Path: Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org. [23.128.96.18]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id bx12si2894774edb.10.2020.11.20.18.55.32; Fri, 20 Nov 2020 18:55:55 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org designates 23.128.96.18 as permitted sender) client-ip=23.128.96.18; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@sholland.org header.s=fm1 header.b=MSULuAWf; dkim=pass header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm1 header.b=sAVWfcR6; spf=pass (google.com: domain of linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org designates 23.128.96.18 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1727287AbgKUCvx (ORCPT + 99 others); Fri, 20 Nov 2020 21:51:53 -0500 Received: from wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com ([64.147.123.24]:46931 "EHLO wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1727048AbgKUCvw (ORCPT ); Fri, 20 Nov 2020 21:51:52 -0500 Received: from compute5.internal (compute5.nyi.internal [10.202.2.45]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27AD810F3; Fri, 20 Nov 2020 21:51:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute5.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 20 Nov 2020 21:51:51 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sholland.org; h= to:cc:references:from:subject:message-id:date:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=fm1; bh=O u73bD4f45P9uvVKv0KtV27VfJnt6NKTFMndwelV6do=; b=MSULuAWfZNB+8eVnW c0xx2MQ5RRLIdgBFOuvrufrIxtG9MUmcyOsIwdHCxm5Rsnr+HeZI+nnuhYZq66+L Yg9hBUCXqRkCtvJqra9ntwKHI495kwMjpEWghgOkgpfi9rBursCrS/JP2IwITRnw 5H8xg5Q0907S0hjxKpTczfX9XkI0Nm7qI8nMn+Ye0kLH3gqg/aGVwo2T+Kh+2OZP J7WC4+psb87PQGp1e7bBhhOlfEGaSvFkPeRm+AnDRNsF8rGMmtBVHl/CV5pNYbgd Y1Na3fabPWm15fZh2w6kZCi4rCdn4qd5n1gNg42ifFIZyVKQNyUddw77EQoW+mb8 Aff5A== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=Ou73bD4f45P9uvVKv0KtV27VfJnt6NKTFMndwelV6 do=; b=sAVWfcR6RH9QwlyY1gQ81V2/VwA+G7J2mcB/ULi4dbRmqoFlPOwQ1j9nR CF6GsNpB8UnSyODJWtiNz4t76XrKG4nOnaDPCTyAOcBJ6QmgQvqTNU9IfcGQSO8B oOdpf/M3m1paqvxrUMiHSoQtsI70v2bv5Zron+nrk16KBha+rGc2C/jvUFa5m+lN lJ5aSRRyIY8kgyQRQWsFzUZMRsR/vnSvAKa3w2wZcH6Crwqw7M2imcMKPYIW20Zk eprdHf4lddcM343KvmzXbKlhYjPXJEkIClw3BJIkDdHYVFac4eDV139Ycf38mj8p /D6a9VjPC/uVc4XpWWcU7JKHGG8rA== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedujedrudeguddgheduucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepvfhfhffukffffgggjggtgfesthekredttdefjeenucfhrhhomhepufgrmhhu vghlucfjohhllhgrnhguuceoshgrmhhuvghlsehshhholhhlrghnugdrohhrgheqnecugg ftrfgrthhtvghrnhepvddttdejieduudfgffevteekffegffeguddtgfefkeduvedukeff hedtfeevuedvnecukfhppeejtddrudefhedrudegkedrudehudenucevlhhushhtvghruf hiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehsrghmuhgvlhesshhhohhllhgr nhgurdhorhhg X-ME-Proxy: Received: from [70.135.148.151] (70-135-148-151.lightspeed.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net [70.135.148.151]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 723433280060; Fri, 20 Nov 2020 21:51:49 -0500 (EST) To: Icenowy Zheng , Maxime Ripard Cc: devicetree@vger.kernel.org, Jernej Skrabec , linux-sunxi@googlegroups.com, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Chen-Yu Tsai , Rob Herring , linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org References: <20201107124958.2222253-1-icenowy@aosc.io> <20201107125332.2223197-1-icenowy@aosc.io> <20201110103925.rbej5ueo2fefbmlp@gilmour.lan> <6175E674-E8BC-4199-8BE8-A983065C32D5@aosc.io> <20201116155508.364dg6ycklwylswe@gilmour.lan> <8FFC1A6C-9CA4-4F94-91C4-F111A7519979@aosc.io> <20201120155939.3ajmbny2pka2vsnf@gilmour> From: Samuel Holland Subject: Re: [linux-sunxi] Re: [PATCH 3/3] arm64: allwinner: dts: a64: add DT for PineTab developer sample Message-ID: <38ee5feb-e35d-801f-99a1-65e23618e73b@sholland.org> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 20:51:48 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux ppc64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Maxime, On 11/20/20 5:30 PM, Icenowy Zheng wrote: >>>>>>> +/ { >>>>>>> + model = "PineTab Developer Sample"; >>>>>>> + compatible = "pine64,pinetab-dev", "allwinner,sun50i-a64"; >>>>>>> +}; >>>>>> >>>>>> Changing the DT and the compatible half-way through it isn't ok. Please >>>>>> add a new DT with the newer revision like we did for the pinephone >>>>> >>>>> We did this on Pine H64. >>>> >>>> What are you referring to? I couldn't find a commit where we did what >>>> you suggested in that patch to the pine H64. >>> >>> Oh the situation is complex. On Pine H64, we didn't specify anything at >>> start (which is the same here), the DT is originally version-neutral >>> but then transitioned to model B, then reverted to model A. Here the DT is always >>> for the sample. >>> >>> However, for Pine H64 there's model A/B names, but for PineTab there's no >>> any samples that are sold, thus except who got the samples, all PineTab >>> owners simply owns a "PineTab", not a "PineTab xxx version". >> >> It's fairly simple really, we can't really predict the future, so any DT >> submitted is for the current version of whatever board there is. This is I don't think that was the intention at all. The DT was submitted for a future product, whatever that future product ends up being at the time of its release. Since there are necessarily no users until the product ships, there is no chance of breaking users by modifying the DT. >> what we (somewhat messily) did for the PineH64, for the pinephone, or >> really any other board that has several revisions Surely a non-public prototype doesn't count as a separate revision! This sort of policy strongly discourages ever shipping a board with out-of-the-box mainline Linux support. Because if there any hardware bugs fixed between initial upstreaming and production, the manufacture must come up with a new DT name. This is hostile to the users as well, because the "canonical" DT name no longer matches the "canonical" (read: the only one ever available) version of the hardware. Do you want manufacturers to submit their initial board DT as "$BOARD-prototype.dts", just in case they have to make a change before production? And only after the board is shipped (with out-of-tree patches, of course, to use $BOARD.dts, since the shipped board is *not* the prototype) submit a "$BOARD.dts" to mainline? Maxime, can you clarify specifically what the line is where a device tree is "locked down" and further changes to the hardware require a new name? First sample leaves the factory? $NUMBER units produced? First sold to the public for money? Without some guidance, or a change in policy, this problem is going to keep coming up again and again. You'll note that so far it has mostly affected Pine devices, and I don't think that's because they make more board revisions than other manufacturers. It's because they're actively involved in getting their boards supported upstream. For other manufacturers, it's some user sending in a device tree months after the hardware ships to the public -- of course the hardware is more stable at that point. I think Pine's behavior is something we want to encourage, not penalize. > Okay. But I'm not satisfied with a non-public sample occupies > the pinetab name. Is rename it to pinetab-dev and add a > pinetab-retail okay? To me, naming the production version anything but "pinetab" isn't satisfying either. Samuel