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Date:   Mon, 7 Dec 2020 20:11:27 -0300
From:   Marcelo Tosatti <mtosatti@redhat.com>
To:     Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>
Cc:     Maxim Levitsky <mlevitsk@redhat.com>,
        Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>, kvm@vger.kernel.org,
        "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
        Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com>,
        Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>,
        Jim Mattson <jmattson@google.com>,
        Wanpeng Li <wanpengli@tencent.com>,
        "open list:KERNEL SELFTEST FRAMEWORK" 
        <linux-kselftest@vger.kernel.org>,
        Vitaly Kuznetsov <vkuznets@redhat.com>,
        Sean Christopherson <sean.j.christopherson@intel.com>,
        open list <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
        Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>,
        "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE (32-BIT AND 64-BIT)" <x86@kernel.org>,
        Joerg Roedel <joro@8bytes.org>, Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>,
        Shuah Khan <shuah@kernel.org>,
        Andrew Jones <drjones@redhat.com>,
        Oliver Upton <oupton@google.com>,
        "open list:DOCUMENTATION" <linux-doc@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 1/3] KVM: x86: implement KVM_{GET|SET}_TSC_STATE
Message-ID: <20201207231127.GB27492@fuller.cnet>
References: <636fecc20b0143128b484f159ff795ff65d05b82.camel@redhat.com>
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On Mon, Dec 07, 2020 at 10:04:45AM -0800, Andy Lutomirski wrote:
> 
> > On Dec 7, 2020, at 9:00 AM, Maxim Levitsky <mlevitsk@redhat.com> wrote:
> > 
> > ﻿On Mon, 2020-12-07 at 08:53 -0800, Andy Lutomirski wrote:
> >>>> On Dec 7, 2020, at 8:38 AM, Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> ﻿On Mon, Dec 07 2020 at 14:16, Maxim Levitsky wrote:
> >>>>> On Sun, 2020-12-06 at 17:19 +0100, Thomas Gleixner wrote:
> >>>>> From a timekeeping POV and the guests expectation of TSC this is
> >>>>> fundamentally wrong:
> >>>>> 
> >>>>>     tscguest = scaled(hosttsc) + offset
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> The TSC has to be viewed systemwide and not per CPU. It's systemwide
> >>>>> used for timekeeping and for that to work it has to be synchronized. 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Why would this be different on virt? Just because it's virt or what? 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Migration is a guest wide thing and you're not migrating single vCPUs.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> This hackery just papers over he underlying design fail that KVM looks
> >>>>> at the TSC per vCPU which is the root cause and that needs to be fixed.
> >>>> 
> >>>> I don't disagree with you.
> >>>> As far as I know the main reasons that kvm tracks TSC per guest are
> >>>> 
> >>>> 1. cases when host tsc is not stable 
> >>>> (hopefully rare now, and I don't mind making
> >>>> the new API just refuse to work when this is detected, and revert to old way
> >>>> of doing things).
> >>> 
> >>> That's a trainwreck to begin with and I really would just not support it
> >>> for anything new which aims to be more precise and correct.  TSC has
> >>> become pretty reliable over the years.
> >>> 
> >>>> 2. (theoretical) ability of the guest to introduce per core tsc offfset
> >>>> by either using TSC_ADJUST (for which I got recently an idea to stop
> >>>> advertising this feature to the guest), or writing TSC directly which
> >>>> is allowed by Intel's PRM:
> >>> 
> >>> For anything halfways modern the write to TSC is reflected in TSC_ADJUST
> >>> which means you get the precise offset.
> >>> 
> >>> The general principle still applies from a system POV.
> >>> 
> >>>    TSC base (systemwide view) - The sane case
> >>> 
> >>>    TSC CPU  = TSC base + TSC_ADJUST
> >>> 
> >>> The guest TSC base is a per guest constant offset to the host TSC.
> >>> 
> >>>    TSC guest base = TSC host base + guest base offset
> >>> 
> >>> If the guest want's this different per vCPU by writing to the MSR or to
> >>> TSC_ADJUST then you still can have a per vCPU offset in TSC_ADJUST which
> >>> is the offset to the TSC base of the guest.
> >> 
> >> How about, if the guest wants to write TSC_ADJUST, it can turn off all paravirt features and keep both pieces?
> >> 
> > 
> > This is one of the things I had in mind recently.
> > 
> > Even better, we can stop advertising TSC_ADJUST in CPUID to the guest 
> > and forbid it from writing it at all.
> 
> Seems reasonable to me.
> 
> It also seems okay for some MSRs to stop working after the guest enabled new PV timekeeping.
> 
> I do have a feature request, though: IMO it would be quite nifty if the new kvmclock structure could also expose NTP corrections. In other words, if you could expose enough info to calculate CLOCK_MONOTONIC_RAW, CLOCK_MONOTONIC, and CLOCK_REALTIME, then we could have paravirt NTP.

Hi Andy,

Any reason why drivers/ptp/ptp_kvm.c does not work for you?

> Bonus points if whatever you do for CLOCK_REALTIME also exposes leap seconds in a race free way :). But I suppose that just exposing TAI and letting the guest deal with the TAI - UTC offset itself would get the job done just fine.