Received: by 2002:a05:6a10:2785:0:0:0:0 with SMTP id ia5csp2131736pxb; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 01:31:38 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyJxdlBuqcAtQnFNcQWcT6dULxeIQvm+SqE2n0n2DGf1447XYIAjBMyS6srMCyLdcODTH3o X-Received: by 2002:aa7:d750:: with SMTP id a16mr13669791eds.252.1610357497980; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 01:31:37 -0800 (PST) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1610357497; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=dAvIZhsaTs49B0IYnW32FpAwagl8peD0PAhqoYv8uW8NW/hdrhQOPKGNs2VPZo/HDB bipBpPnZ95ylxe1XvbBETZUnlYWMrbvZlZupfeiXzNQttdOIlmmE7VQyF8WILwgxCBkP vHNK5krUql+046YojdrX3lyKGphRxgq0P7aw+n+t7gCucfiL2YJUr6gOX9gpE1tedvDR DpCDyqOenHJRX7dyHPSobUdSTHFX/J5kIOArhkJOvscbw52eARCHLxnjiPrbuiZqO8Qw yVeNyLYNp13IsbrGZOZQsqObycVxvB51+uH+e4uCPQg4aiCP5FiBozX5XuigJWw3jquf t4gg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=list-id:precedence:in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version :references:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date; bh=38z2M1MUWOd1qGqslqN4Z2kOEjJdfObe7Wj3+TIWyuI=; b=Ab8r5qhq6bcMAFkoMl/NfwbKeptiTdUmWe0wvpezvpw2Qn+bICX8/I6GTDdQFC/w7m wmqj+CPeL0Ha9d0mtjDkgMEetimnj7D/dlRWRTWVM5gMXR+48SB7c/5tlGVuf89oFwa6 uu/jJyGriV67WVvwAy72/ehWNtiSWgaZZFjcwVV6c1ClZAskKmfpa5bHY/kN5KdkaO5z C4SRNk0FWLMlym8Eys7Y1Y9jBBtGPdZqHYjgAScaIFcKZcsudQZVDbkOLY8f73LOsiqr 9Vj0t3Zhj4N+k+sTZYypKdFgRoFU0yv3AJKs5fkr7M2lXjSqBWGCyjY3k9jUbY8U4TRn FFNw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org designates 23.128.96.18 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=arm.com Return-Path: Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org. [23.128.96.18]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id v5si6460451eds.16.2021.01.11.01.31.14; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 01:31:37 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org designates 23.128.96.18 as permitted sender) client-ip=23.128.96.18; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org designates 23.128.96.18 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=arm.com Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1728216AbhAKJ3G (ORCPT + 99 others); Mon, 11 Jan 2021 04:29:06 -0500 Received: from foss.arm.com ([217.140.110.172]:51098 "EHLO foss.arm.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1726273AbhAKJ3F (ORCPT ); Mon, 11 Jan 2021 04:29:05 -0500 Received: from usa-sjc-imap-foss1.foss.arm.com (unknown [10.121.207.14]) by usa-sjc-mx-foss1.foss.arm.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88323101E; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 01:28:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from e123083-lin (usa-sjc-imap-foss1.foss.arm.com [10.121.207.14]) by usa-sjc-imap-foss1.foss.arm.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E58003F70D; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 01:28:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 10:28:11 +0100 From: Morten Rasmussen To: Tim Chen Cc: Barry Song , valentin.schneider@arm.com, catalin.marinas@arm.com, will@kernel.org, rjw@rjwysocki.net, vincent.guittot@linaro.org, lenb@kernel.org, gregkh@linuxfoundation.org, jonathan.cameron@huawei.com, mingo@redhat.com, peterz@infradead.org, juri.lelli@redhat.com, dietmar.eggemann@arm.com, rostedt@goodmis.org, bsegall@google.com, mgorman@suse.de, mark.rutland@arm.com, sudeep.holla@arm.com, aubrey.li@linux.intel.com, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, linuxarm@openeuler.org, xuwei5@huawei.com, prime.zeng@hisilicon.com, tiantao6@hisilicon.com Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v3 0/2] scheduler: expose the topology of clusters and add cluster scheduler Message-ID: <20210111092811.GB47324@e123083-lin> References: <20210106083026.40444-1-song.bao.hua@hisilicon.com> <737932c9-846a-0a6b-08b8-e2d2d95b67ce@linux.intel.com> <20210108151241.GA47324@e123083-lin> <99c07bdf-02d1-153a-bd1e-2f4200cc67c5@linux.intel.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <99c07bdf-02d1-153a-bd1e-2f4200cc67c5@linux.intel.com> Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Fri, Jan 08, 2021 at 12:22:41PM -0800, Tim Chen wrote: > > > On 1/8/21 7:12 AM, Morten Rasmussen wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 07, 2021 at 03:16:47PM -0800, Tim Chen wrote: > >> On 1/6/21 12:30 AM, Barry Song wrote: > >>> ARM64 server chip Kunpeng 920 has 6 clusters in each NUMA node, and each > >>> cluster has 4 cpus. All clusters share L3 cache data while each cluster > >>> has local L3 tag. On the other hand, each cluster will share some > >>> internal system bus. This means cache is much more affine inside one cluster > >>> than across clusters. > >> > >> There is a similar need for clustering in x86. Some x86 cores could share L2 caches that > >> is similar to the cluster in Kupeng 920 (e.g. on Jacobsville there are 6 clusters > >> of 4 Atom cores, each cluster sharing a separate L2, and 24 cores sharing L3). > >> Having a sched domain at the L2 cluster helps spread load among > >> L2 domains. This will reduce L2 cache contention and help with > >> performance for low to moderate load scenarios. > > > > IIUC, you are arguing for the exact opposite behaviour, i.e. balancing > > between L2 caches while Barry is after consolidating tasks within the > > boundaries of a L3 tag cache. One helps cache utilization, the other > > communication latency between tasks. Am I missing something? > > > > IMHO, we need some numbers on the table to say which way to go. Looking > > at just benchmarks of one type doesn't show that this is a good idea in > > general. > > > > I think it is going to depend on the workload. If there are dependent > tasks that communicate with one another, putting them together > in the same cluster will be the right thing to do to reduce communication > costs. On the other hand, if the tasks are independent, putting them together on the same cluster > will increase resource contention and spreading them out will be better. Agree. That is exactly where I'm coming from. This is all about the task placement policy. We generally tend to spread tasks to avoid resource contention, SMT and caches, which seems to be what you are proposing to extend. I think that makes sense given it can produce significant benefits. > > Any thoughts on what is the right clustering "tag" to use to clump > related tasks together? > Cgroup? Pid? Tasks with same mm? I think this is the real question. I think the closest thing we have at the moment is the wakee/waker flip heuristic. This seems to be related. Perhaps the wake_affine tricks can serve as starting point? Morten