Subject: Re: When will the lunacy end? (Was Re: [PATCH] uswsusp: add
	pmops->{prepare,enter,finish} support (aka "platform mode"))
From: Nigel Cunningham <ncunningham@linuxmail.org>
To: Adrian Bunk <bunk@stusta.de>
Cc: "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@sisk.pl>, Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>,
       Andrew Morton <akpm@osdl.org>, Stefan Seyfried <seife@suse.de>,
       linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
In-Reply-To: <20060926223146.GI4547@stusta.de>
References: <20060925071338.GD9869@suse.de>
	 <20060925224500.GB2540@elf.ucw.cz> <20060926201437.GH4547@stusta.de>
	 <200609262235.14816.rjw@sisk.pl>
	 <1159306711.7485.13.camel@nigel.suspend2.net>
	 <20060926223146.GI4547@stusta.de>
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 09:05:15 +1000
Message-Id: <1159311915.7485.37.camel@nigel.suspend2.net>
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Hi.

On Wed, 2006-09-27 at 00:31 +0200, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 27, 2006 at 07:38:31AM +1000, Nigel Cunningham wrote:
> > Hi.
> > 
> > On Tue, 2006-09-26 at 22:35 +0200, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, 26 September 2006 22:14, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> > > > On Tue, Sep 26, 2006 at 12:45:00AM +0200, Pavel Machek wrote:
> > > > >...
> > > > > solid)
> > > > > 	apart from HIGHMEM64G fiasco, and related agpgart fiasco long
> > > > > 	time before that... these are driver problems...
> > > > >...
> > > > 
> > > > One point that seems to be a bit forgotten is that driver problems do 
> > > > actually matter a lot:
> > > > 
> > > > I for one do not care much whether I can abort suspending (I can always 
> > > > resume) or whether dancing penguins are displayed during suspending - 
> > > > but the fact that my saa7134 card only outputs the picture but no sound 
> > > > after resuming from suspend-to-disk is a real show-stopper for me.
> > 
> > Agreed that some things are more important than others. But to some
> > people, user interface does matter. After all, we want (well I want)
> > people considering converting from Windows to see that free software can
> > be better than proprietary stuff, not just imitate what they're doing. 
> > 
> > Suspend2 doesn't actually provide dancing penguins while suspending -
> > it's a simple progress bar in either pure text or overlayed on an image
> > of your choosing.
> > 
> > The support for aborting is really just fall out from the work on
> > debugging and testing failure paths.
> >...
> 
> Sorry if this sounded as if I was against improvements of suspend.
> That was not my intention.
> 
> But as long as there are driver problems, suspend as a whole can not be 
> called solid. The core itself might be solid or not, but without working 
> drivers this doesn't buy users much.
> 
> A user might be impressed by a progress bar on a nifty image, but if one 
> or more of his drivers have problems with suspend the user won't get a 
> good impression of Linux.
> 
> How many driver problems with suspend are buried in emails and
> Bugzillas (will problems like kernel Bugzilla #6035 ever be debugged?)?

I fully agree. One of the largest issues I'm regularly dealing with is
people reporting problems with drivers.

Regards,

Nigel

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