From: Chase Venters <chase.venters@clientec.com>
Organization: Clientec, Inc.
To: Sergey Panov <sipan@sipan.org>
Subject: Re: GPLv3 Position Statement
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 23:39:04 -0500
User-Agent: KMail/1.9.4
Cc: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@osdl.org>, Patrick McFarland <diablod3@gmail.com>,
       Theodore Tso <tytso@mit.edu>, Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
       Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@linux01.gwdg.de>,
       James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@steeleye.com>,
       linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
References: <1158941750.3445.31.camel@mulgrave.il.steeleye.com> <Pine.LNX.4.64.0609271945450.3952@g5.osdl.org> <1159415242.13562.12.camel@sipan.sipan.org>
In-Reply-To: <1159415242.13562.12.camel@sipan.sipan.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
  charset="iso-8859-6"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
Message-Id: <200609272339.28337.chase.venters@clientec.com>
Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org
Content-Length: 3419
Lines: 60

On Wednesday 27 September 2006 22:46, Sergey Panov wrote:
> On Wed, 2006-09-27 at 20:15 -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> > So everybody - join the "Passionate Moderate" movement, even if you're
> > not in the US. We're not passionate about any of the issues, we are just
> > _really_ fed up with extreme opinions! And we're not afraid to say so!
>
> I hope you understand that "Passionate Moderate" is an oxymoron. And I
> do not believe RMS is a commie! To me he is quite a moderate figure
> (very strong principals and no diplomatic skills at all, but it does not
> mean he is an extremist).

After lots of careful consideration, I think it is fair to say that Stallman 
vigorously and extremely promotes and stands by his ideals, but the ideals he 
stands for aren't all that radical or extreme. That is the difference, isn't 
it? Wouldn't we all love free software running on free hardware, supporting 
free culture and talking over free spectrum? The biggest difference I've seen 
in the movements is that one aims to strike a conservative and functional 
balance while the other is always trying to push the envelope.

I sympathize with Richard on his avoidance of "open-source". I don't 
necessarily take the same view, but I understand that his big concern is that 
the message he feels is important will be lost. I also think some of the 
things I've heard from the "open-source" side are too extreme - take, for 
instance, ESR's idea that we don't need the GPL license at all. That sounds 
like a nice world he's living in, but I'm not sure we're all on the same 
planet yet.

The final GPLv3 may indeed go too far for many open-source supporters. But 
then again, it is the FSF's license, and it should at least not surprise 
anyone if they are more concerned with the ideals of the license rather than 
current market realities. Market conditions change; ideals generally don't.

And I think society needs both kinds of people. We need strong leaders like 
Linus to coordinate the effort of moving solar systems and strong idealists 
like Richard to inspire minds. I'm not sure Linus or Richard would admit 
this, but I speculate that in a world where only one of them existed, this 
community would have accomplished far less than the one in which they both 
act.

This is really why I got upset when I saw all the crap in the press over the 
last few days. I think both sides have pissed the other off to the point that 
some of us are actively forgetting that we're just, as Eben once 
said, "singing slightly different lyrics to slightly different music, and 
it's dissonant, and it jars us..."

Some amount of contention is naturally good, so long as it does not undermine 
the great ends both movements are achieving. When our flamewars spill out 
into the industry press, it's just likely to make both sides look crazy. I 
wish that most people who choose to take sides could see (and acknowledge!) 
the real value the other side has, even if they don't agree with the approach 
or phraseology. And I wish that more of us wouldn't pick sides; that we'd be 
those "Passionate Moderates" Linus just invented. But we do need loud voices!

Thanks,
Chase Venters
-
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/