Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1161309AbWI2RuB (ORCPT ); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 13:50:01 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1161313AbWI2RuB (ORCPT ); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 13:50:01 -0400 Received: from smtp.osdl.org ([65.172.181.4]:63968 "EHLO smtp.osdl.org") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1161309AbWI2RuA (ORCPT ); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 13:50:00 -0400 Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 10:49:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Linus Torvalds To: Alan Cox cc: Helge Hafting , tglx@linutronix.de, Neil Brown , Michiel de Boer , James Bottomley , linux-kernel Subject: Re: GPLv3 Position Statement In-Reply-To: <1159552021.13029.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: References: <1158941750.3445.31.camel@mulgrave.il.steeleye.com> <451798FA.8000004@rebelhomicide.demon.nl> <17687.46268.156413.352299@cse.unsw.edu.au> <1159183895.11049.56.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1159200620.9326.447.camel@localhost.localdomain> <451CF22D.4030405@aitel.hist.no> <1159552021.13029.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 2501 Lines: 53 On Fri, 29 Sep 2006, Alan Cox wrote: > > That cuts both ways > > "If you don't want to use all this handy free code then don't lock your > system down or go use OpenBSD" That's a fallacious argument for two reasons: - the GPLv2 allows usage in any circumstances except the geographical limitation that can be forced on it by other laws. No serious lawyer I have ever met is even ambiguous about this. There's just no question - people may not be happy about it, and iirc the FSF at some point tried to claim somethign else, but this really isn't all that controversial. So the whole "If you don't want to use all this handy free code" argument is simply WRONG. It's based on a premise that just isn't true. All that handy free code is perfectly usable for things like a secure terminal or something else that doesn't allow you to change its behaviour because of some load-time consistency check. You cannot make a logical argument that as it's axiom takes something that is patently false. It may still be "logically consistent", but it has no _relevance_, since it has nothing to do with reality. - It tries to equate the word "free" (which means so many things that it almost lacks meaning) with "not able to authenticate". Which is just one of hundreds of ways to read it, and it is extremely irritating how the FSF thinks that _its_ definition of the word free somehow trumps everybody elses. We already had that discussion ten years ago, and it's why people who want to be clear in their speaking (and thinking) use the term "Open Source". Because the OSI rules generally speak about concrete things that mean only one thing, which means that they actually have a well-defined _meaning_ in any discussion between two parties. A lot of people seem to think that the problem with "free" was just the confusion between "no cost" and "freedom". Those people seemed to never really understand an even deeper problem in the whole FSF language use. In other words: anybody who wants to have a logical argument about the real world needs to start with (a) acknowledging facts and (b) avoid using words that may mean something else to the other side. Linus - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/