From: ebiederm@xmission.com (Eric W. Biederman)
To: Arjan van de Ven <arjan@infradead.org>
Cc: Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl>, Andrew Morton <akpm@osdl.org>,
       linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
       "Chen, Kenneth W" <kenneth.w.chen@intel.com>, linux-mm@kvack.org,
       Nick Piggin <npiggin@suse.de>
Subject: Re: RSS accounting (was: Re: 2.6.19-rc1-mm1)
References: <20061010000928.9d2d519a.akpm@osdl.org>
	<1160464800.3000.264.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org>
	<20061010004526.c7088e79.akpm@osdl.org>
	<1160467401.3000.276.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org>
	<1160486087.25613.52.camel@taijtu>
	<1160496790.3000.319.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org>
	<m11wpfohg7.fsf@ebiederm.dsl.xmission.com>
	<1160556462.3000.359.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 06:07:28 -0600
In-Reply-To: <1160556462.3000.359.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> (Arjan van de
	Ven's message of "Wed, 11 Oct 2006 10:47:42 +0200")
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Arjan van de Ven <arjan@infradead.org> writes:

> On Tue, 2006-10-10 at 17:54 -0600, Eric W. Biederman wrote:
>
>> For processes shared pages are not special.

Actually the above is not quite true you can map a shared page twice
into the same process but in practice it rarely happens.

> depends on what question you want to answer with RSS.
> If the question is "workload working set size" then you are right. If
> the question is "how much ram does my application cause to be used" the
> answer is FAR less clear....

There are two basic concerns.  How do you keep an application from
going crazy and trashing the rest of your system?  A question on what
number do you need to implement a resource limit.

The other question is how do I get good information so I can
effectively understand what kind of resources a given
application is using and hopefully predict what kind of
resources that application will use in the future.

The last time I tried to answer the question "how much ram does my
application cause to be used"  I had to slowly start up additional
copies and watch how much free memory decreased.

Having a couple of additional counts in addition to RSS would probably
be the most help in understanding resource usage.  Counting the number
of private dirty resident pages would be interesting.  As would
counting the number of pages that are resident in the process but not
resident in any other process.

It might also help to have a per page report on which file it backs
and how many user it has.  Unfortunately that is totally overwhelming
detail and the act of reporting it would quite likely change the
result as it would take so much memory to store the result.

> You seem to have an implicit definition on what RSS should mean; but
> it's implicit. Mind making an explicit definition of what RSS should be
> in your opinion? I think that's the biggest problem we have right now;
> several people have different ideas about what it should/could be, and
> as such we're not talking about the same thing. Lets first agree/specify
> what it SHOULD mean, and then we can figure out what gets counted for
> that ;)

Well I tried to defined it in terms of what you can use it for.

I would define the resident set size as the total number of bytes
of physical RAM that a process (or set of processes) is using,
irrespective of the rest of the system.  

By physical RAM I mean that if a single page (if shared) is used twice
by a single process it will be counted only once.  This definition
works well for shared and private pages.  

COW pages are probably the most subtle.  They are both shared and not
shared.   Since that sharing is application visible and at application
discretion I would count COW pages as shared until they that sharing
is broken, and then I would count them as private pages.  

The principle is that you don't find the ``owner'' of a page and
charge the page to the ``owner''.  Instead you find the users
of a page and charge all of them for the page exactly once.

By and large most of that usage comes from pages in the page tables
so they are the most interesting items to count.

Things like file descriptors, inodes, page tables and other kernel
memory are interesting but are generally overshadowed by the page
table users, and generally kernel data structures don't have reverse
maps which makes it difficult to charge all of the users.

So I think the counting should be primarily about what is mapped into
the page tables.  But other things can be added as is appropriate or
easy.

The practical effect should be that an application that needs more
pages than it's specified RSS to avoid thrashing should thrash but
it shouldn't take the rest of the system with it.


The biggest instance of system memory that an application does not
seem to have true control over is the page cache.  Some kind of limit
that prevents one application from destroying everything another
application doing seems interesting.  But I expect the solution there
are I/O limits and not memory limits.

Eric
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