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From:   Shakeel Butt <shakeelb@google.com>
Date:   Wed, 21 Apr 2021 07:13:45 -0700
Message-ID: <CALvZod6oCBB6tDh5wABSwdHfcDzLX7S7cOTLp_4Qk4DCi50X_A@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC] memory reserve for userspace oom-killer
To:     Michal Hocko <mhocko@suse.com>
Cc:     Roman Gushchin <guro@fb.com>, Johannes Weiner <hannes@cmpxchg.org>,
        Linux MM <linux-mm@kvack.org>,
        Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
        Cgroups <cgroups@vger.kernel.org>,
        David Rientjes <rientjes@google.com>,
        LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
        Suren Baghdasaryan <surenb@google.com>,
        Greg Thelen <gthelen@google.com>,
        Dragos Sbirlea <dragoss@google.com>,
        Priya Duraisamy <padmapriyad@google.com>
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On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 12:23 AM Michal Hocko <mhocko@suse.com> wrote:
>
[...]
> > In our observation the global reclaim is very non-deterministic at the
> > tail and dramatically impacts the reliability of the system. We are
> > looking for a solution which is independent of the global reclaim.
>
> I believe it is worth purusing a solution that would make the memory
> reclaim more predictable. I have seen direct reclaim memory throttling
> in the past. For some reason which I haven't tried to examine this has
> become less of a problem with newer kernels. Maybe the memory access
> patterns have changed or those problems got replaced by other issues but
> an excessive throttling is definitely something that we want to address
> rather than work around by some user visible APIs.
>

I agree we want to address the excessive throttling but for everyone
on the machine and most importantly it is a moving target. The reclaim
code continues to evolve and in addition it has callbacks to diverse
sets of subsystems.

The user visible APIs is for one specific use-case i.e. oom-killer
which will indirectly help in reducing the excessive throttling.

[...]
> > So, the suggestion is to have a per-task flag to (1) indicate to not
> > throttle and (2) fail allocations easily on significant memory
> > pressure.
> >
> > For (1), the challenge I see is that there are a lot of places in the
> > reclaim code paths where a task can get throttled. There are
> > filesystems that block/throttle in slab shrinking. Any process can get
> > blocked on an unrelated page or inode writeback within reclaim.
> >
> > For (2), I am not sure how to deterministically define "significant
> > memory pressure". One idea is to follow the __GFP_NORETRY semantics
> > and along with (1) the userspace oom-killer will see ENOMEM more
> > reliably than stucking in the reclaim.
>
> Some of the interfaces (e.g. seq_file uses GFP_KERNEL reclaim strength)
> could be more relaxed and rather fail than OOM kill but wouldn't your
> OOM handler be effectivelly dysfunctional when not able to collect data
> to make a decision?
>

Yes it would be. Roman is suggesting to have a precomputed kill-list
(pidfds ready to send SIGKILL) and whenever oom-killer gets ENOMEM, it
would go with the kill-list. Though we are still contemplating the
ways and side-effects of preferably returning ENOMEM in slowpath for
oom-killer and in addition the complexity to maintain the kill-list
and keeping it up to date.

thanks,
Shakeel