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Date:   Wed, 29 Sep 2021 09:17:12 -0600
From:   Alex Williamson <alex.williamson@redhat.com>
To:     Max Gurtovoy <mgurtovoy@nvidia.com>
Cc:     Jason Gunthorpe <jgg@ziepe.ca>, Leon Romanovsky <leon@kernel.org>,
        "Doug Ledford" <dledford@redhat.com>,
        Yishai Hadas <yishaih@nvidia.com>,
        "Bjorn Helgaas" <bhelgaas@google.com>,
        "David S. Miller" <davem@davemloft.net>,
        Jakub Kicinski <kuba@kernel.org>,
        Kirti Wankhede <kwankhede@nvidia.com>, <kvm@vger.kernel.org>,
        <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>, <linux-pci@vger.kernel.org>,
        <linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org>, <netdev@vger.kernel.org>,
        Saeed Mahameed <saeedm@nvidia.com>,
        Cornelia Huck <cohuck@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH mlx5-next 2/7] vfio: Add an API to check migration state
 transition validity
Message-ID: <20210929091712.6390141c.alex.williamson@redhat.com>
In-Reply-To: <d2e94241-a146-c57d-cf81-8b7d8d00e62d@nvidia.com>
References: <cover.1632305919.git.leonro@nvidia.com>
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        <20210927164648.1e2d49ac.alex.williamson@redhat.com>
        <20210927231239.GE3544071@ziepe.ca>
        <25c97be6-eb4a-fdc8-3ac1-5628073f0214@nvidia.com>
        <20210929063551.47590fbb.alex.williamson@redhat.com>
        <1eba059c-4743-4675-9f72-1a26b8f3c0f6@nvidia.com>
        <20210929075019.48d07deb.alex.williamson@redhat.com>
        <d2e94241-a146-c57d-cf81-8b7d8d00e62d@nvidia.com>
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On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 17:36:59 +0300
Max Gurtovoy <mgurtovoy@nvidia.com> wrote:

> On 9/29/2021 4:50 PM, Alex Williamson wrote:
> > On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 16:26:55 +0300
> > Max Gurtovoy <mgurtovoy@nvidia.com> wrote:
> >  
> >> On 9/29/2021 3:35 PM, Alex Williamson wrote:  
> >>> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 13:44:10 +0300
> >>> Max Gurtovoy <mgurtovoy@nvidia.com> wrote:
> >>>     
> >>>> On 9/28/2021 2:12 AM, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:  
> >>>>> On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 04:46:48PM -0600, Alex Williamson wrote:  
> >>>>>>> +	enum { MAX_STATE = VFIO_DEVICE_STATE_RESUMING };
> >>>>>>> +	static const u8 vfio_from_state_table[MAX_STATE + 1][MAX_STATE + 1] = {
> >>>>>>> +		[VFIO_DEVICE_STATE_STOP] = {
> >>>>>>> +			[VFIO_DEVICE_STATE_RUNNING] = 1,
> >>>>>>> +			[VFIO_DEVICE_STATE_RESUMING] = 1,
> >>>>>>> +		},  
> >>>>>> Our state transition diagram is pretty weak on reachable transitions
> >>>>>> out of the _STOP state, why do we select only these two as valid?  
> >>>>> I have no particular opinion on specific states here, however adding
> >>>>> more states means more stuff for drivers to implement and more risk
> >>>>> driver writers will mess up this uAPI.  
> >>>> _STOP == 000b => Device Stopped, not saving or resuming (from UAPI).
> >>>>
> >>>> This is the default initial state and not RUNNING.
> >>>>
> >>>> The user application should move device from STOP => RUNNING or STOP =>
> >>>> RESUMING.
> >>>>
> >>>> Maybe we need to extend the comment in the UAPI file.  
> >>> include/uapi/linux/vfio.h:
> >>> ...
> >>>    *  +------- _RESUMING
> >>>    *  |+------ _SAVING
> >>>    *  ||+----- _RUNNING
> >>>    *  |||
> >>>    *  000b => Device Stopped, not saving or resuming
> >>>    *  001b => Device running, which is the default state
> >>>                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >>> ...
> >>>    * State transitions:
> >>>    *
> >>>    *              _RESUMING  _RUNNING    Pre-copy    Stop-and-copy   _STOP
> >>>    *                (100b)     (001b)     (011b)        (010b)       (000b)
> >>>    * 0. Running or default state
> >>>    *                             |
> >>>                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >>> ...
> >>>    * 0. Default state of VFIO device is _RUNNING when the user application starts.
> >>>         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >>>
> >>> The uAPI is pretty clear here.  A default state of _STOP is not
> >>> compatible with existing devices and userspace that does not support
> >>> migration.  Thanks,  
> >> Why do you need this state machine for userspace that doesn't support
> >> migration ?  
> > For userspace that doesn't support migration, there's one state,
> > _RUNNING.  That's what we're trying to be compatible and consistent
> > with.  Migration is an extension, not a base requirement.  
> 
> Userspace without migration doesn't care about this state.
> 
> We left with kernel now. vfio-pci today doesn't support migration, right 
> ? state is in theory is 0 (STOP).
> 
> This state machine is controlled by the migration SW. The drivers don't 
> move state implicitly.
> 
> mlx5-vfio-pci support migration and will work fine with non-migration SW 
> (it will stay with state = 0 unless someone will move it. but nobody 
> will) exactly like vfio-pci does today.
> 
> So where is the problem ?

So you have a device that's actively modifying its internal state,
performing I/O, including DMA (thereby dirtying VM memory), all while
in the _STOP state?  And you don't see this as a problem?

There's a major inconsistency if the migration interface is telling us
something different than we can actually observe through the behavior of
the device.  Thanks,

Alex