Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1754599AbWLZAVN (ORCPT ); Mon, 25 Dec 2006 19:21:13 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1754601AbWLZAVN (ORCPT ); Mon, 25 Dec 2006 19:21:13 -0500 Received: from mail1.webmaster.com ([216.152.64.169]:1526 "EHLO mail1.webmaster.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1754599AbWLZAVM (ORCPT ); Mon, 25 Dec 2006 19:21:12 -0500 From: "David Schwartz" To: Cc: , "Linux-Kernel@Vger. Kernel. Org" Subject: RE: Binary Drivers Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2006 16:20:50 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <200612242020.kBOKKtS9009605@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Importance: Normal X-Authenticated-Sender: joelkatz@webmaster.com X-Spam-Processed: mail1.webmaster.com, Mon, 25 Dec 2006 17:24:07 -0800 (not processed: message from trusted or authenticated source) X-MDRemoteIP: 206.171.168.138 X-Return-Path: davids@webmaster.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Reply-To: davids@webmaster.com X-MDAV-Processed: mail1.webmaster.com, Mon, 25 Dec 2006 17:24:07 -0800 Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 2802 Lines: 60 > > Now, let's try it another way: Are they allowed to sell a car that > > incorporates a computer that uses a trade-secret algorithm for > > controlling > > the fuel injection to get 20 more horsepower and 5% better > > mileage if it's > > impossible to *start* the car without knowing that algorithm? > It is done regularly. Current cars control the fuel injection etc via an > onboard computer, without this control the engine just won't > start. So? You don't need to know the algorithm to start the car. > Did you > get the specs for the exact fuel control algorithm with your car? Should > you be able to fool around with that, thus violating emission control > measures (this would damage not only you, but everybody)? If I bought the car from the manufacturer, it also must include any rights the manufacturer might have to the car's use. That includes using the car to violate emission control measures. If I didn't buy the right to use the car that way (insofar as that right was owned by the car manufacturer), I didn't buy the whole care -- just *some* of the rights to use it. If I buy a device that has a safety of some kind, the manufacturer cannot prohibit me from removing or disabling the safety unless some law gives them that authority. Otherwise, I didn't buy all of the rights to that device, just some of them. If the manufacturer kept the right to keep the safety there, then they didn't sell me the whole product. It's no conceptually different than if they kept the right to drive the car on Tuesdays. If you bought the car, and it's a normal free and clear sale, then the manufacturer retains no rights to say how the car is used. Any they might have had, you bought from them. The exception is where operation of some specific law changes the rules. (For example, you know that when you buy a DVD of a movie, you do not get the right to charge admission to see the DVD. But that's because a specific law retains that right for the copyright holder.) > Almost everything around you is controlled by a uP nowadays (it is much > cheaper/preciser to control e.g. the washing machine that way than via the > customary rotating wheels with notches). Did you get the specs for that? > Can you get them? So long as you don't *need* them to use the device, there's no issue. The problem is when you need them to use the device (and not just the ordinary expected way, any reasonable way). Then you are entitled to them. James C. Georgas made this point better than I did with his example of a car that includes a "driver". DS - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/