Date:   Fri, 26 Nov 2021 16:42:38 +0100
From:   Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>
To:     Simo Sorce <simo@redhat.com>
Cc:     Stephan Mueller <smueller@chronox.de>,
        "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com>, Tso Ted <tytso@mit.edu>,
        linux-crypto@vger.kernel.org, Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu>,
        Nicolai Stange <nstange@suse.de>,
        LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
        Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>,
        "Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@xmission.com>,
        "Alexander E. Patrakov" <patrakov@gmail.com>,
        "Ahmed S. Darwish" <darwish.07@gmail.com>,
        Matthew Garrett <mjg59@srcf.ucam.org>,
        Vito Caputo <vcaputo@pengaru.com>,
        Andreas Dilger <adilger.kernel@dilger.ca>,
        Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>, Ray Strode <rstrode@redhat.com>,
        William Jon McCann <mccann@jhu.edu>,
        zhangjs <zachary@baishancloud.com>,
        Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>,
        Florian Weimer <fweimer@redhat.com>,
        Lennart Poettering <mzxreary@0pointer.de>,
        Peter Matthias <matthias.peter@bsi.bund.de>,
        Marcelo Henrique Cerri <marcelo.cerri@canonical.com>,
        Neil Horman <nhorman@redhat.com>,
        Randy Dunlap <rdunlap@infradead.org>,
        Julia Lawall <julia.lawall@inria.fr>,
        Dan Carpenter <dan.carpenter@oracle.com>,
        Andy Lavr <andy.lavr@gmail.com>,
        Eric Biggers <ebiggers@kernel.org>,
        Petr Tesarik <ptesarik@suse.cz>,
        John Haxby <john.haxby@oracle.com>,
        Alexander Lobakin <alobakin@mailbox.org>,
        Jirka Hladky <jhladky@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v43 01/15] Linux Random Number Generator
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On Mon, Nov 22, 2021 at 10:09:05AM -0500, Simo Sorce wrote:
> On Mon, 2021-11-22 at 07:55 +0100, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote:
> > On Mon, Nov 22, 2021 at 07:42:02AM +0100, Stephan Mueller wrote:
> > > Am Montag, 22. November 2021, 07:02:14 CET schrieb Greg Kroah-Hartman:
> > > 
> > > Hi Greg,
> > > 
> > > > On Mon, Nov 22, 2021 at 06:34:43AM +0100, Stephan Mueller wrote:
> > > > > Am Sonntag, 21. November 2021, 23:42:33 CET schrieb Jason A. Donenfeld:
> > > > > 
> > > > > Hi Jason,
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Hi Stephan,
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > You've posted it again, and yet I still believe this is not the
> > > > > > correct design or direction. I do not think the explicit goal of
> > > > > > extended configurability ("flexibility") or the explicit goal of being
> > > > > > FIPS compatible represent good directions, and I think this introduces
> > > > > > new problems rather than solving any existing ones.
> > > > > 
> > > > > The members from the Linux distributions that are on copy on this may tell
> > > > > you a different story. They all developed their own downstream patches to
> > > > > somehow add the flexibility that is needed for them. So, we have a great
> > > > > deal of fragmentation at the resting-foundation of Linux cryptography.
> > > > 
> > > > What distros specifically have patches in their kernels that do
> > > > different things to the random code path?  Do you have pointers to those
> > > > patches anywhere?  Why have the distros not submitted their changes
> > > > upstream?
> > > 
> > > I will leave the representatives from the distros to chime in and point to 
> > > these patches.
> > 
> > Then why not work with the distros to get these changes merged into the
> > kernel tree?  They know that keeping things out-of-the-tree costs them
> > time and money, so why are they keeping them there?
> 
> I can speak for my distro.
> We have not proposed them because they are hacks, we know they are
> hacks, and we know they are not the long term solution.

Hacks that work today are the step toward a real solution.

So please, propose them and we can evolve from that.

> Yet we have no better way (in our products, today) so far to deal with
> these issues because what is needed is an effort like LRNG (does not
> have to be this specific implementation), because hacks will not cut it
> in the long term.

So you want to ship this separate driver instead?  Great, but as I said
elsewhere, doing a wholesale replacement is almost never the right thing
to do.

Work off of those known-working-and-certified hacks.  Submit them and
let's go from there please.

thanks,

greg k-h