Received: by 2002:a05:6a10:413:0:0:0:0 with SMTP id 19csp3423418pxp; Tue, 8 Mar 2022 14:10:24 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzmgX93S3oYpnQ85ipqyc4wpOlyrNfoCePNeS+uOz5opAtcb1qEhz41LCRkuW1XxaQ0Ro6M X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:161f:b0:6da:a8fc:f67b with SMTP id hb31-20020a170907161f00b006daa8fcf67bmr15412614ejc.694.1646777423820; Tue, 08 Mar 2022 14:10:23 -0800 (PST) ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1646777423; cv=pass; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=MlGzggxXD2+Fl9QHsCJtaZ7iAhs0XUaTMdoeXpuHocdd+yLtxhijDAJ28T4MhmyBPW zqSs/q0x8M5rh2FuCBAmHDDdVkJVf2T59t+p/6HiFIbf4Yg9OcJuWP+QMR+X7i3pF6aI WN9SWmOibK4QE4I1FhqzNnh7a6VzniAoT+kDvlT+1SVoBPmMTY/bwqZJXfDQus1pdHkC EalzGXW2ys6KzOoOZRTRC3BwT/nMSMjNghZHh/z95v38I3FPxvFnx0OysPDyh+v0i9rs o7q3WJai3VT7Z3q/li7pDdGsVXQoIrRMa9QA/XvcCzwfpDuNDS23qM+rq9L+K+SbOlL3 0RHQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=list-id:precedence:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to:content-language:subject :user-agent:date:message-id:dkim-signature; bh=72R5RbUhAxBOGV71kKetK1+kS9bIKdkJe+KvJgxB+AY=; b=kZY/6OL0FbUyWzqrhZkjflXZxO1K9Q3TIMyC9FTIt0o/VH5MbvnkQufOBsp3Bn7qIm 5G+p4Xw1OS3Of7+BkLf8dBMU9t+/eG2/0QYUGN5gOgiOOSLmBWukOmuj+uvI+EnoQfoX lfNI47dNBxn0JXiHUN8E5+EKEazo/ZwNA7jK6SAA0cNEEj8mo+UK+Vr3mwf2VOd0kn2S WPHPcZU0mtp9ZTlhvMDm/csbHy8D+sCUklbrYikr8Psk6Uh+hBIP2H6qnLCKMK5fx7tw 8ZbxTirTxs9glb/+Zz9QrsNAQAHNi6k2fr5IvjWIU9e4Ul+AKPVEBZib9UxHrCyvbL3Z WTXQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@nutanix.com header.s=proofpoint20171006 header.b=os8vzH0F; arc=pass (i=1 spf=pass spfdomain=nutanix.com dkim=pass dkdomain=nutanix.com dmarc=pass fromdomain=nutanix.com); spf=pass (google.com: domain of linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org designates 2620:137:e000::1:20 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=nutanix.com Return-Path: Received: from out1.vger.email (out1.vger.email. [2620:137:e000::1:20]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id m15-20020a056402510f00b00415e61860b7si75100edd.293.2022.03.08.14.09.54; Tue, 08 Mar 2022 14:10:23 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org designates 2620:137:e000::1:20 as permitted sender) client-ip=2620:137:e000::1:20; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@nutanix.com header.s=proofpoint20171006 header.b=os8vzH0F; arc=pass (i=1 spf=pass spfdomain=nutanix.com dkim=pass dkdomain=nutanix.com dmarc=pass fromdomain=nutanix.com); spf=pass (google.com: domain of linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org designates 2620:137:e000::1:20 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=nutanix.com Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S239729AbiCGKky (ORCPT + 99 others); Mon, 7 Mar 2022 05:40:54 -0500 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:44440 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S241316AbiCGKUS (ORCPT ); Mon, 7 Mar 2022 05:20:18 -0500 Received: from mx0a-002c1b01.pphosted.com (mx0a-002c1b01.pphosted.com [148.163.151.68]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 924977C169; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 01:58:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0127839.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-002c1b01.pphosted.com (8.16.1.2/8.16.1.2) with ESMTP id 226L06ud023876; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 01:57:17 -0800 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nutanix.com; h=message-id : date : subject : to : cc : references : from : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=proofpoint20171006; bh=72R5RbUhAxBOGV71kKetK1+kS9bIKdkJe+KvJgxB+AY=; b=os8vzH0FRYibi66lA/6DTK3CwY6I9fjbFGuZYhlO//YtDR3hzqaiyg52Xktlae0dmCy+ Xw4ZgxomcIL89Mmc7DQQ6dmk3xxeA+EvycsaYJqW7nUvnOOl43Fn++ezVQ4Pq592YXmS K8RPltSTd4NGoayLxSE1/WRzAmgYTQs4PYYAspNbPyn/01pChJNnqPyLUpoPonWt5XmY WdJTaA2/Qhd0e9G1YhgkJfN8f1e4qYMlWJVrUp6nwyKnLuGnEbsI0r8vsu4TmIub/jGt Dt4fY5L0004w2o1Kf/zxOmXPXtFFQcRX8dVuZTWGkSg2IONzDEIcajxncKsKJbHWRCMI 3g== Received: from nam12-dm6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm6nam12lp2172.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.59.172]) by mx0a-002c1b01.pphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3em7tkju8j-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 07 Mar 2022 01:57:17 -0800 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=LHRq4QITulf4VIsfDVMMS7J/OvAuHGTVXvYfFR1FuMmiDONlvzcIuw94evJfJuKGIh59LOU3sJfLpLrTMQxOHghVm1UTcMAfRX6ssUsOxd2T/VNj8vIXHixOpdFzc3yuyeItKdiEDO8P9jh6JL8UkoAtR9wjsr4vN7tncBPgadHbqmYlJx7G8Zk0z9AjQV3f18t2si4efY93ZVkKYjNy2Jpij5sE2/ETihLu/R0cq6LNRifiog8UijU9oQpv/h62aOjdT0hWYQmcAcSvSPMwbjZpYICrZ0SRgaoGvvJ3yiRcZMBOd6wEztI8oLB2V8h0a9b0iO8c6r31+tYJSxx9sQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=72R5RbUhAxBOGV71kKetK1+kS9bIKdkJe+KvJgxB+AY=; b=kEm5Tx6R+HpYMlRMEN6n83/9jjYNHUW1L8H6iX6v7ZCjxADk7+IAe/74d0uzSiXKP9xa0uDZDBHy7QjLKmbJ1yGSy2V2DfJ+2bLZep2H9WDiLmNjjNsxmYQQUKysNgWAW7Kb+4K9n2QBXdbwuiNUQ9qz4f11Ix+qGob6hpWTnKRR3TQILd/YzW1XVg/IZmE5/7j1FNYyPBp+mGo82tpt4AmEESkdtcHpFtHhW80Gkbk80gauEIIUlxTz2Q4BVX6QRa5HVgNDuow6s1CRw7/eFqv7hnCW8WxVyi9WaiKjqhCcOMQDfuhNpaQrTE01/4ztaCkWgPjrZwmgjTQ1hkhY8g== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=nutanix.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=nutanix.com; dkim=pass header.d=nutanix.com; arc=none Received: from CY4PR0201MB3460.namprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:910:91::14) by SA2PR02MB7819.namprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:806:144::18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.5038.17; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 09:57:15 +0000 Received: from CY4PR0201MB3460.namprd02.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::7567:4530:d91f:33b3]) by CY4PR0201MB3460.namprd02.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::7567:4530:d91f:33b3%3]) with mapi id 15.20.5038.026; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 09:57:15 +0000 Message-ID: <48275d12-7c81-ba31-0ec6-c0623c143ef4@nutanix.com> Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2022 09:57:07 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.6.1 Subject: Re: Regression of madvise(MADV_COLD) on shmem? Content-Language: en-US To: Yu Zhao , Minchan Kim Cc: Andrew Morton , Linux-MM , linux-kernel , linux-api@vger.kernel.org, Michal Hocko , Johannes Weiner , Tim Murray , Joel Fernandes , Suren Baghdasaryan , dancol@google.com, Shakeel Butt , sonnyrao@google.com, oleksandr@redhat.com, Hillf Danton , lizeb@google.com, Dave Hansen , "Kirill A . Shutemov" References: From: Ivan Teterevkov In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ClientProxiedBy: PH0PR07CA0076.namprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:510:f::21) To CY4PR0201MB3460.namprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:910:91::14) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 94686076-6d24-4632-b032-08da0020db8d X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: SA2PR02MB7819:EE_ X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: x-proofpoint-crosstenant: true X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-Relay: 0 X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 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 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255;CTRY:;LANG:en;SCL:1;SRV:;IPV:NLI;SFV:NSPM;H:CY4PR0201MB3460.namprd02.prod.outlook.com;PTR:;CAT:NONE;SFS:(13230001)(366004)(110136005)(508600001)(8676002)(4326008)(7416002)(66476007)(66556008)(316002)(66946007)(54906003)(6486002)(2906002)(83380400001)(186003)(26005)(31686004)(2616005)(8936002)(5660300002)(86362001)(31696002)(36756003)(6666004)(6506007)(53546011)(44832011)(6512007)(38100700002)(43740500002)(45980500001);DIR:OUT;SFP:1102; X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0: =?utf-8?B?b0RUbFpTSHk4Uk0ra01xTkFuQUNEVGhYOFdNRGhhclBTLzRESzYzeTBUSktX?= =?utf-8?B?bkUxN3dMQXhid3Z3YU5Dbmg4YWNiaHVCOTAxZjZ2bTJZSFk0U1VTaml2V3VP?= =?utf-8?B?dDBNUGVwMDdHdnFhOEVEcmk3L1NvOVhzNm9OSXhRMlhsWlNrNyt3VWFqeHFh?= =?utf-8?B?RFBGZWlKY29XSWtQSlM4d1RLV1g3ZWtDVzZXbDZJSUZjMStvamc2cXNwTFZX?= =?utf-8?B?TTVJZlovZTRIdS9iOHZ5SHBlQno4aWZpOGpheFJ6ZEIrVWNDbXRtRjVpcnlp?= =?utf-8?B?dVVFam12aDdkaG1HSC9YektqSTBsczRmMm5KUVRTRmFRZFFxa1B6V0svTWdh?= =?utf-8?B?dHRaWEQvSGxlS2pQKzF3Y1VrZi9hUkQvYWpNQzZqMkMzcGo3ejBscEpZQmVs?= =?utf-8?B?VEdMS2FLSWFURmYvMjVpdnk1eCtWbStoWnRrbEkyTzc4TWRLQkdlTXJYK1ph?= =?utf-8?B?QkVBbEVMYnZHdDlhdVBSUENwZmwwQlp4dmJZS0RqdHBEOEhNdU8wS3N6TVZY?= =?utf-8?B?WjA1U1NYbXVPcHhpcHJOVXZka2ZRTm1iVXkxMTljaFRrdUJGS3NyTVg4ZEp5?= =?utf-8?B?Q1pwWG51WS9GUG1yS0hiMjNSZXNoVURPRWJZNG82MjkwZVBycWMzbEY4ZVFZ?= =?utf-8?B?ZklVRFpmVTY4ckRvYXZuMmhId2ZLc0NZazE3eXpWTDFNL0lLYmI5RmZXRCs3?= =?utf-8?B?OXMzTkNrM3JEVmdVRks0LzF4MHhXcEtYb01TNllYTjc1S1R6V2loUmo4S1Y2?= =?utf-8?B?anl3VzhTQ1V4Y3lNb2JnRTc5MW8xQ2JDNG44dUNKQlpyOHNxdGY5S0dUZ1pQ?= =?utf-8?B?Ykh5UUhZaUI3WGk2d3dGZDFXZy9aUUFjWk52aUVPZVBkSjZLSDNWc0pJRVl3?= =?utf-8?B?bHBGSll0R0ZRcGp0VVJuT1BMWUJwSUNhUEw4Z0ZZU1Q2UkdWMHM1eS8xYlJU?= =?utf-8?B?ZVNubHlFeFZmam5ZOExBOW9IV2N6cmNMT0gvSGNUSzcyM09FNkdDcGxLZzF2?= =?utf-8?B?eEVPaXZCaDB4QUQrUTVHZXJPUDJjREpyWS8rbGlEaUJVdWdoT243UzNOekdV?= =?utf-8?B?Sjk0OHlPZTZYTHV6c2JsOUlCekQ0Wk4vN1pVaGRkWmp4SVplL05EY29TWi9o?= =?utf-8?B?TTlZS1hNbHNBeklHdlRNZTYza3lPeVU2Z1czUkt1c0NIQUVUdTBkMzdvTVFS?= =?utf-8?B?c0RxazUwRHhBcEJMc0o2MWtPUko5VmU4MEY5cXlnTU9iZWQwdG1IWGs1TlhL?= =?utf-8?B?U2lzSktkQ2lWNHdUS2Q0czk2SCtYSEdNWlltRUYzZlg3UzRkU1FsUWdnNGZN?= =?utf-8?B?TVZtdmhXeE95ZUdNblJrZWk2cEJjdDNJNGhwdXdocEg3WTFseHh5bGRxSjFJ?= =?utf-8?B?b3Y2SG5xQVhSNkJJQTNqZCtnMlZ4dFNua1FkY2lGUzRBRnRwMkxWU0RYMzNF?= =?utf-8?B?bmxEaTJVbnVKcHFXaml5Tk1JeTFoeVhJd3lYQlFFZ3ZNMEU2YW1rTHZWUDJX?= =?utf-8?B?T1o3cjBPMkFTMmdubGhPVlE3WkFWQmxsQjh3QUZXd1hKYkwzRUtBblJQRXZ4?= =?utf-8?B?UlNHQ2ZzVFZsdXlXb211S2d4V1FWVmEvNDlvMGNic0VuUWpVYU5ERXhLeEVj?= =?utf-8?B?c3FDQVhqb09WV2ZnbHRvRDk4QnV5OXh1RWxXUmlwMWJCTE1ERWRldVlBSTlX?= =?utf-8?B?djJZanhOQ2tNQmRKV2hxcGFsMFBSK05iQUE3SzVtNDFOdWVuOEwwM0hsYkVJ?= =?utf-8?B?dFg2cVJkaWNCMll3dks3U0V6emFpMDlZbEFZVUdtYzVqLzNPUnVrL3ZMcHRR?= =?utf-8?B?WTFpZ3RVVVplMCtucERtSU9TMDNDRG1ibHhlVzRuZnVhcHI0cUcvbFZzZUE0?= =?utf-8?B?bW5HN0sxaFlJbnB5QmpWQXVSSmJUdlk2UCtkTGZleWJvNzdyMGJldllBamFk?= =?utf-8?B?R085TmlaY21mZjhPdFo1a1B5SjlhSHl3US9YdExvUnNqYVlHODJTaEM5MVFV?= =?utf-8?B?VWJHQm5CYmpieXdpNmN6bzlqSms4U1RYa24wOUx6cXh6ZTlielNaeFc0c1ZY?= =?utf-8?B?SEpWTjByN1M0TTNNN1NNU3pjZmVuWGJRZVA4TGV6WHBlanBnTWszb1drZDlT?= =?utf-8?B?WUZBZ2tERGI4eFEyaThmeVVYNVRsajllN2l4Q3cyZVl1ekdFM1lFbFlMb2Ju?= =?utf-8?B?cXFDTGQrVHIvZWhUUk1teHNOZGg1OXk5enFHL2l6bnFGSUZwTlBENjd5NkFW?= =?utf-8?B?cVk0cGthWEx2aUVHdUVKekxBd0NRPT0=?= X-OriginatorOrg: nutanix.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 94686076-6d24-4632-b032-08da0020db8d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: CY4PR0201MB3460.namprd02.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Mar 2022 09:57:15.1451 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: bb047546-786f-4de1-bd75-24e5b6f79043 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: b8I8n+GISkpOJsPKW5EgCEK5kx74ltdmcRJ0EfcECf0fN5odE4BCNfkPXAYHLG71BqDvZ6c7ve9LLJ2awinWOZ+oGXZn6uR63OmtUcKNMyA= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SA2PR02MB7819 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: 2oA293ugoFreLwohqQLoLUuiQUdp22BQ X-Proofpoint-GUID: 2oA293ugoFreLwohqQLoLUuiQUdp22BQ X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.205,Aquarius:18.0.816,Hydra:6.0.425,FMLib:17.11.64.514 definitions=2022-03-07_03,2022-03-04_01,2022-02-23_01 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Reason: safe X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIMWL_WL_HIGH, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,NICE_REPLY_A, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_NONE,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.6 (2021-04-09) on lindbergh.monkeyblade.net Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On 05-Mar-22 9:49 AM, Yu Zhao wrote: > On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 2:17 AM Yu Zhao wrote: >> >> On Fri, Mar 4, 2022 at 5:18 PM Minchan Kim wrote: >>> >>> On Fri, Mar 04, 2022 at 05:55:58PM +0000, Ivan Teterevkov wrote: >>>> It makes me think there may be a regression in MADV_COLD. Please let me know >>>> what do you reckon? >>> >>> Since deactive_page is called, I guess that's not a regression(?) from [1] >>> >>> Then, my random guess that you mentioned "Swap" as regression might be >>> related to "workingset detection for anon page" since kernel changes balancing >>> policy between file and anonymous LRU, which was merged into v5.8. >>> It would be helpful to see if you try it on v5.7 and v5.8. >>> >>> [1] 12e967fd8e4e6, mm: do not allow MADV_PAGEOUT for CoW page >> >> Yes, I noticed this for a while. With commit b518154e59a ("mm/vmscan: >> protect the workingset on anonymous LRU"), anon/shmem pages start on >> the inactive lru, and in this case, deactive_page() is a NOP. Before >> 5.9, anon/shmem pages start on the active lru, deactive_page() moves >> zero pages in the test to the inactive lru and therefore protests the >> "blob". >> >> This should fix the problem for your test case: >> Thank you, it does fix the test case in 5.17.0-rc6+. >> I'll leave it to Minchan to decide whether this is worth fixing, >> together with this one: >> I suppose add_page_to_lru_list_tail() makes madvise(MADV_COLD) more "insistent" with moving the pages at the end of the inactive LRU, but perhaps that's aligned with its purpose? Cheers, Ivan