Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1751548AbXBVJ3a (ORCPT ); Thu, 22 Feb 2007 04:29:30 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1751524AbXBVJ3a (ORCPT ); Thu, 22 Feb 2007 04:29:30 -0500 Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com ([64.233.184.233]:16320 "EHLO wr-out-0506.google.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1751547AbXBVJ32 (ORCPT ); Thu, 22 Feb 2007 04:29:28 -0500 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Fn8DBFoHcLTx/jEBo98Gb4pgcxeuYlRbQycx+CPlxxNW5E45e0+kgQo7zPi+5byjnYrNI7sZvF+RxqNE/n4t3OGdy01hEa5EprYPit9HDzMGcQPMhij8U4llxKDai7AIOpqQLkH6DUTxj4Dy0dnckB2gB+sjc/cPPs/fsMSTpxI= Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 01:29:23 -0800 From: "Michael K. Edwards" To: "Ingo Molnar" Subject: Re: [patch 00/13] Syslets, "Threadlets", generic AIO support, v3 Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, "Linus Torvalds" , "Arjan van de Ven" , "Christoph Hellwig" , "Andrew Morton" , "Alan Cox" , "Ulrich Drepper" , "Zach Brown" , "Evgeniy Polyakov" , "David S. Miller" , "Suparna Bhattacharya" , "Davide Libenzi" , "Jens Axboe" , "Thomas Gleixner" In-Reply-To: <20070222070013.GA30921@elte.hu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20070221211355.GA7302@elte.hu> <20070221233111.GB5895@elte.hu> <20070222070013.GA30921@elte.hu> Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 2273 Lines: 42 On 2/21/07, Ingo Molnar wrote: > the syslet/threadlet framework has been derived from Tux, which one can > accuse of may things, but which i definitely can not accuse of being > slow. It has no relationship whatsoever to Solaris 2.0 or later. So how well does Tux fare on a NUMA box? The Solaris 2.0 reference was not about the origins of the code, it was about the era when SMP first became relevant to the UNIX application programmer. I remember an emphasis on scheduler scalability then, too. It took them quite a while to figure out that having an efficient scheduler is of little use if you are scheduling the wrong things on the wrong CPUs in the wrong order and thereby thrashing continuously. By that time we had given up and gone back to message passing via the network stack, which was the one kernel component that could figure out how to get state from one CPU to another without taking all of its clothes off and changing underwear in between. Sound familiar? > Your other mail showed that you have very basic misunderstandings about > how threadlets work, on which you based a string of firm but incorrect > conclusions. In this discussion i'm mostly interested in specific > feedback about syslets/threadlets - thankfully we are past the years of > "unless Linux does generic technique X it will stay a hobby OS forever" > type of time-wasting discussions. Well, maybe I'll let someone else weigh in about whether I understood threadlets well enough to provide feedback worth reading. As for the "hobby OS forever" bit, that's an utter misrepresentation of my comments and criticism. Linux is now good enough for Oracle to have more or less abandoned Sun for Linux. That's as good as it needs to be, as far as Oracle and IBM are concerned. The question is now whether it will ever get substantially _better_, so that you can do something constructive with a NUMA box or a 64-core MIPS without having the resources of an Oracle or a Google to build an OS-atop-the-OS. Cheers, - Michael - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/