Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1751962AbXBVVwi (ORCPT ); Thu, 22 Feb 2007 16:52:38 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1751961AbXBVVwi (ORCPT ); Thu, 22 Feb 2007 16:52:38 -0500 Received: from mx1.redhat.com ([66.187.233.31]:37507 "EHLO mx1.redhat.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1751959AbXBVVwh (ORCPT ); Thu, 22 Feb 2007 16:52:37 -0500 Message-ID: <45DE108C.6010101@redhat.com> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 16:52:12 -0500 From: Peter Staubach User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20061215) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Miklos Szeredi CC: trond.myklebust@fys.uio.no, akpm@linux-foundation.org, hugh@veritas.com, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [PATCH] update ctime and mtime for mmaped write References: <20070221202615.a0a167f4.akpm@linux-foundation.org> <45DDD55F.4060106@redhat.com> <45DDF9C1.4090003@redhat.com> <1172178253.6382.12.camel@heimdal.trondhjem.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 2079 Lines: 53 Miklos Szeredi wrote: >>>> This still does not address the situation where a file is 'permanently' >>>> mmap'd, does it? >>>> >>> So? If application doesn't do msync, then the file times won't be >>> updated. That's allowed by the standard, and so portable applications >>> will have to call msync. >>> >> It is allowed, but it is clearly not useful behaviour. Nowhere is it set >> in stone that we should be implementing just the minimum allowed. >> > > You're right. In theory, at least. But in practice I don't think > this matters. Show me an application that writes to a shared mapping > then doesn't call either msync or munmap and doesn't even exit. > > If there were lot of these apps, then this bug would have been fixed > lots of years earlier. In fact there are _very_ few apps writing to > shared mappings at all. > > Perhaps true, although I know of at least one customer of Red Hat who does have an application (or more) than uses mmap'd files and is suffering from this lack of appropriate semantics. They are not getting files backed up which need to be. > Applications should be encouraged to call msync(MS_ASYNC) because: > > - it's very fast (basically a no-op) on recent linux kernels > > - it's the only portable way to guarantee, that the data you written > will _ever_ hit the disk. > > There's really no downside to using msync(MS_ASYNC) in your > application, so making an effort to support applications that don't do > this is stupid, IMO. It may be a no-op on recent Linux kernels, but I don't think that it is a no-op on other systems. I do not wish to defend applications which don't use msync or some such, but it seems that the appropriate semantics to support are more than just depending upon the application to "do the right thing". Thanx... ps - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/