Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1760622AbXEOISO (ORCPT ); Tue, 15 May 2007 04:18:14 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1756386AbXEOISD (ORCPT ); Tue, 15 May 2007 04:18:03 -0400 Received: from mailer.gwdg.de ([134.76.10.26]:53507 "EHLO mailer.gwdg.de" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1756087AbXEOISA (ORCPT ); Tue, 15 May 2007 04:18:00 -0400 Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 10:16:26 +0200 (MEST) From: Jan Engelhardt To: Satyam Sharma cc: Tilman Schmidt , LKML , Stefan Richter Subject: Re: Linux 2.6.22-rc1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4647569D.7010709@imap.cc> <4648A3DF.7040004@imap.cc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Report: Content analysis: 0.0 points, 6.0 required _SUMMARY_ Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 3563 Lines: 96 On May 15 2007 08:04, Satyam Sharma wrote: > On 5/15/07, Jan Engelhardt wrote: >> that can be switched on or off. >> It is for those people that start with an arbitrary .config and >> work their way through menuconfig to disable all the parts they >> do not want. So, point no. 1: >> >> * Disabling this menu disables all the fluff inside it, >> without needing to enter the menu and disable each >> option one by one (as was the case previously) > > This kind of promise was really nice, and why I liked Jan's > menuconfig patches a lot. > > But if: > > On 5/15/07, Tilman Schmidt wrote: >> Another essential piece of information. I seem to remember other >> menus which, when disabled, kept the selection status of the >> options inside and just hid them from view. > > is true, then are we really gaining much from these configmenu's? If you transform a menu with hidden options (which do NOT "depend on" the menu - they can't even) into a menuconfig (continuing not to depend on the menuconfig), the presentation fucks up (especially in ncurses-menuconfig). That is a good hint something should be taken more seriously. So, for menus with hidden options I had a number of options how to go about them: - move the hidden options before the menuconfig or after, so the presentation does not bork; - leave the menu as-is because there's just so many hidden options and a menuconfig entry is detrimental > [unrelated] > I wish these new constructs were called "configmenu" and > _not_ "menuconfig". It causes confusion with the "menuconfig" > master Makefile rule which has nothing to do with these new > "configmenu"s. > [/unrelated] Indeed. >> Then of course, one can also turn these menuconfig on (apparently!) >> to be able to descend into them and select some drivers they like. >> Point no. 2: >> >> * Since Jens Axboe's stance ["default y idiocy"] is to have >> these menus disabled by default, people should most likely >> enable them first before they will be able to enter them. > > I do agree that anything non-essential (even if it's just a presentation > menu that doesn't affect builds) must be default n. > >> (I would have wanted them to be always 'y' - it does not affect >> the build, just opens all menus by default) > > IMHO, the real problem with "default y" menuconfig's, is that they > cause unpleasant surprises to those folks that use the text-based > "make oldconfig". They get confronted with choices that they never > bothered about (or even knew existed) previously, and have no > idea how to answer them -- same problem faced by Tilman, when > he used oldconfig. > > I think what happened here is that Jan really only considered the > "make menuconfig" users with these new constructs (which makes life > really simple for them), but "oldconfig" users were unfortunately in for > unpleasant surprises ... I can't tell, since I'd just say yes if it asks "Ethernet (10 GbE)?" - either I have such an adapter or I don't. So what do we need? * 'configmenu' option (with 'endconfigmenu') that works the same as 'menu' and 'endmenu' (so we can have hidden options), but at the same time make the ---> and options inside it disappear when it is not selected. Currently, no other type seems to satisfy this. Jan -- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/