Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1757119AbXE3TlR (ORCPT ); Wed, 30 May 2007 15:41:17 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1753004AbXE3TlE (ORCPT ); Wed, 30 May 2007 15:41:04 -0400 Received: from x35.xmailserver.org ([64.71.152.41]:1360 "EHLO x35.xmailserver.org" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1751424AbXE3TlD (ORCPT ); Wed, 30 May 2007 15:41:03 -0400 X-AuthUser: davidel@xmailserver.org Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 12:40:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Davide Libenzi X-X-Sender: davide@alien.or.mcafeemobile.com To: Ingo Molnar cc: Ulrich Drepper , Jeff Garzik , Zach Brown , Linux Kernel Mailing List , Linus Torvalds , Arjan van de Ven , Christoph Hellwig , Andrew Morton , Alan Cox , Evgeniy Polyakov , "David S. Miller" , Suparna Bhattacharya , Jens Axboe , Thomas Gleixner Subject: Re: Syslets, Threadlets, generic AIO support, v6 In-Reply-To: <20070530084252.GA15708@elte.hu> Message-ID: References: <20070529212718.GH7875@mami.zabbo.net> <465CA654.5000505@garzik.org> <20070530072055.GA3077@elte.hu> <465D286E.2080807@redhat.com> <20070530084252.GA15708@elte.hu> X-GPG-FINGRPRINT: CFAE 5BEE FD36 F65E E640 56FE 0974 BF23 270F 474E X-GPG-PUBLIC_KEY: http://www.xmailserver.org/davidel.asc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 1286 Lines: 34 On Wed, 30 May 2007, Ingo Molnar wrote: > yeah - this is a fundamental design question for Linus i guess :-) glibc > (and other infrastructure libraries) have a fundamental problem: they > cannot (and do not) presently use persistent file descriptors to make > use of kernel functionality, due to ABI side-effects. [applications can > dup into an fd used by glibc, applications can close it - shells close > fds blindly for example, etc.] Today glibc simply cannot open a file > descriptor and keep it open while application code is running due to > these problems. Here I think we are forgetting that glibc is userspace and there's no separation between the application code and glibc code. An application linking to glibc can break glibc in thousand ways, indipendently from fds or not fds. Like complaining that glibc is broken because printf() suddendly does not work anymore ;) #include int main(void) { close(fileno(stdout)); printf("Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?\n"); return 0; } - Davide - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/