Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 03:24:01 +0200
From: Adrian Bunk <bunk@stusta.de>
To: Daniel Hazelton <dhazelton@enter.net>
Cc: Alexandre Oliva <aoliva@redhat.com>,
       Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
       Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>, Greg KH <greg@kroah.com>,
       debian developer <debiandev@gmail.com>, david@lang.hm,
       Tarkan Erimer <tarkan@netone.net.tr>, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
       Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>, mingo@elte.hu
Subject: Re: Dual-Licensing Linux Kernel with GPL V2 and GPL V3
Message-ID: <20070614012401.GN3588@stusta.de>
References: <466A3EC6.6030706@netone.net.tr> <200706131946.15714.dhazelton@enter.net> <20070614004419.GL3588@stusta.de> <200706132101.28330.dhazelton@enter.net>
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On Wed, Jun 13, 2007 at 09:01:28PM -0400, Daniel Hazelton wrote:
> On Wednesday 13 June 2007 20:44:19 Adrian Bunk wrote:
> > On Wed, Jun 13, 2007 at 07:46:15PM -0400, Daniel Hazelton wrote:
> > > On Wednesday 13 June 2007 19:15:42 Alexandre Oliva wrote:
> > > > On Jun 13, 2007, Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> wrote:
> > > > > On Wed, 13 Jun 2007, Alan Cox wrote:
> > > > >> > find offensive, so I don't choose to use it. It's offensive
> > > > >> > because Tivo never did anything wrong, and the FSF even
> > > > >> > acknowledged that. The fact
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Not all of us agree with this for the benefit of future legal
> > > > >> interpretation.
> > > > >
> > > > > Well, even the FSF lawyers did,
> > > >
> > > > Or rather they didn't think an attempt to enforce that in the US would
> > > > prevail (or so I'm told).  That's not saying what TiVo did was right,
> > > > and that's not saying that what TiVo did was permitted by the license.
> > > > Only courts of law can do that.
> > >
> > > Wrong! Anyone with half a brain can make the distinction. What TiVO did
> > > is entirely legal - they fully complied with the GPLv2. Note that what
> > > they *DON'T* allow people to do is run whatever version of whatever
> > > software they want on their hardware. They have that right - its the
> > > "Free Software Foundation" and the GPL - regardless of version - is a
> > > *SOFTWARE* license. ...
> >
> > The GPLv2 says:
> >
> > "For an executable work, complete source code means all the source code
> > for all modules it contains, plus any associated interface definition
> > files, plus the scripts used to control compilation and installation of
> > the executable."
> >
> > The question is whether this includes private keys.
> > Different people have different opinions regarding this issue.
> >
> > If "the complete source code" includes private keys, the GPLv2 requires
> > them to give any costumer the private keys.
> >
> > Fact is that Harald Welte did in several cases successfully convince
> > vendors that private keys are part of the source code if they are
> > required for running the compiled binary on some hardware.
> 
> If the hardware was designed for the end-user to change the software running 
> on it - including running software that it was never meant to run (ie: a 
> complete webserver on cell phone) - then yes, the signing keys are a part of 
> the source, as the software running on the device is designed to be updated 
> by the user using the provided system.
> 
> If, on the other hand, the only "software updates" the user is expected to 
> perform are the installation of newer versions of the existing code 
> for "Security" or "Bug Fix" reasons then the signing keys aren't part of the 
> source.

Are you an idiot, or do you just choose to ignore all proof that doesn't 
fit your preconceived beliefs?

The GPL doesn't give someone distributing the software the choice of how
much to limit the freedom of the user.

Either private keys required to run the kernel on the hardware are 
always considered part of "the complete source code" or they are never 
part of it.

> I haven't looked into what Harald Welte did, but I'd be surprised if someone 
> tried following suit in America and had as much success.
>...

Harald is in Germany, and he therefore takes legal action against people 
distributing products violating his copyright on the Linux kernel
in Germany at German courts based on German laws.

cu
Adrian

-- 

       "Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
        of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
       "Only a promise," Lao Er said.
                                       Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed

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