Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1753244AbXFNTOF (ORCPT ); Thu, 14 Jun 2007 15:14:05 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1752247AbXFNTNy (ORCPT ); Thu, 14 Jun 2007 15:13:54 -0400 Received: from mx1.redhat.com ([66.187.233.31]:40765 "EHLO mx1.redhat.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1752163AbXFNTNx (ORCPT ); Thu, 14 Jun 2007 15:13:53 -0400 To: "Chris Friesen" Cc: Ingo Molnar , Alan Cox , Daniel Hazelton , Linus Torvalds , Greg KH , debian developer , david@lang.hm, Tarkan Erimer , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Andrew Morton Subject: Re: Dual-Licensing Linux Kernel with GPL V2 and GPL V3 References: <466A3EC6.6030706@netone.net.tr> <200706132121.04532.dhazelton@enter.net> <200706132304.21984.dhazelton@enter.net> <20070614112329.3645c397@the-village.bc.nu> <20070614103846.GA7902@elte.hu> <46718044.1040108@nortel.com> From: Alexandre Oliva Organization: Red Hat OS Tools Group Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 16:13:31 -0300 In-Reply-To: <46718044.1040108@nortel.com> (Chris Friesen's message of "Thu\, 14 Jun 2007 11\:52\:04 -0600") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.990 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 2878 Lines: 66 On Jun 14, 2007, "Chris Friesen" wrote: > Alexandre Oliva wrote: >> But see, I'm not talking about getting permission to hack the >> hardware. I'm only talking about getting permission to hack the Free >> Software in it. > No you're not...you're talking about being able to hack the software > *and load it back onto the original hardware*. Yes. You wouldn't impose restrictions on modifying the software like that, now would you? Even though the GPL says you can't impose further restrictions on modification and distribution. >> It's your position that mingles the issues and permits people to use >> the hardware to deprive users of freedom over the software that >> they're entitled to have. > The software license controls the software. If the hardware has > restrictions on it that limit what software it will run, then that is > unrelated to the software license. As in, the license controls the software. If a patent creates restrictions that limit what you can do with the software, then that is unrelated to the software license. As in, the license controls the software. If a discriminatory contract limits what you can do with the software, then that is unrelated to the software license. As in, the license controls the software. If I send you the source code, but it happens to be protected by a key that only the hardware can decode, and it won't decode for you, then that is unrelated to the software license. Is that so, really? > There is nothing stopping you from taking the code for the tivo, > modifying it, distributing it, or even running it on other hardware. True. But TiVO is still imposing further restrictions on how I can modify the software stored in their device, while reserving that ability to itself. This is wrong. This is not "in kind". This is not "tit-for-tat". Tit-for-tat is: if they can, then I can too, and if I can't, then they can't either. > Suppose I had some machine that will only run microsoft-signed > binaries. Would it be at all related to any software license that this > machine won't let me run linux? That would be an unfortunate machine to have, but if Linux or some other GPLed software was not shipped in it, then I don't see how this is relevant to this discussion. It's not about the hardware, it's about the software in it, and about passing on the freedoms related with it. -- Alexandre Oliva http://www.lsd.ic.unicamp.br/~oliva/ FSF Latin America Board Member http://www.fsfla.org/ Red Hat Compiler Engineer aoliva@{redhat.com, gcc.gnu.org} Free Software Evangelist oliva@{lsd.ic.unicamp.br, gnu.org} - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/