Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1758742AbXFODrk (ORCPT ); Thu, 14 Jun 2007 23:47:40 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1754326AbXFODrd (ORCPT ); Thu, 14 Jun 2007 23:47:33 -0400 Received: from smtp2.linux-foundation.org ([207.189.120.14]:42443 "EHLO smtp2.linux-foundation.org" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1753640AbXFODrc (ORCPT ); Thu, 14 Jun 2007 23:47:32 -0400 Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 20:46:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Linus Torvalds To: Alexandre Oliva cc: Daniel Hazelton , Chris Friesen , Paul Mundt , Lennart Sorensen , Greg KH , debian developer , "david@lang.hm" , Tarkan Erimer , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Andrew Morton , mingo@elte.hu Subject: Re: Dual-Licensing Linux Kernel with GPL V2 and GPL V3 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4671B734.1040401@nortel.com> <200706142155.34298.dhazelton@enter.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=us-ascii Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 2440 Lines: 51 On Fri, 15 Jun 2007, Alexandre Oliva wrote: > > case 2'': tivo provides source, end user tries to improve it, realizes > the hardware won't let him use the result of his efforts, and gives up So you're blaming Tivo for the fact that your end user was a lazy bum and wanted to take advantage of somebody elses hard work without permission? Quite frankly, I know who the bad guy in that scenario is, and it ain't Tivo. It's your lazy bum, that thought he would just take what Tivo did, sign the contract, and then not follow it. And just because the box _contained_ some piece of free software, that lazy bum suddenly has all those rights? Never mind all the *other* effort that went into bringing that box to market? You do realize that Tivo makes all their money on the service, don't you? The actual hardware they basically give away at cost, exactly to get the service contracts. Not exactly a very unusual strategy in the high-tech world, is it? You know what? I respect the pro-FSF opinions less and less, the more you guys argue for it. Michael Poole seems to argue that things like fair use shouldn't exist, and even the cryptographic _signatures_ of the programs should be under total control of the copyright owner. And you seem to argue that it's perfectly fine to ignore the people who design hardware and the services around them, and once you have that piece of hardware in your grubby hands you can do anythign you want to it, and _their_ rights and the contracts you signed don't matter at all. Guys, you should be ashamed of calling yourself "free software" people. You sound more like the RIAA/MPAA ("we own all the rights! We _own_ your sorry asses for even listening to our music") and a bunch of whiners that think that just because you have touched a piece of hardware you automatically can do anythign you want to it, and nobody elses rights matter in the least! Guys, in fighting for "your rights", you should look a bit at *other* peoples rights too. Including the rights of hw manufacturers, and the service providers. Because this is all an eco-system, where in order to actually succeed, you need to make _everybody_ succeed. Linus - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/