Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1758470AbXFPBjh (ORCPT ); Fri, 15 Jun 2007 21:39:37 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1757360AbXFPBj3 (ORCPT ); Fri, 15 Jun 2007 21:39:29 -0400 Received: from mx1.redhat.com ([66.187.233.31]:38402 "EHLO mx1.redhat.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1756921AbXFPBj2 (ORCPT ); Fri, 15 Jun 2007 21:39:28 -0400 To: "Scott Preece" Cc: "Ingo Molnar" , "Rob Landley" , "Alan Cox" , "Daniel Hazelton" , "Linus Torvalds" , "Greg KH" , "debian developer" , david@lang.hm, "Tarkan Erimer" , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, "Andrew Morton" Subject: Re: Dual-Licensing Linux Kernel with GPL V2 and GPL V3 References: <466A3EC6.6030706@netone.net.tr> <20070614122031.4751a52b@the-village.bc.nu> <20070614122546.GB22078@elte.hu> <200706141907.11957.rob@landley.net> <20070615120926.GD6269@elte.hu> <7b69d1470706151503v23253546w5648f04673741c8f@mail.gmail.com> <7b69d1470706151752x30aeaaacl305d964b0ae4cc2d@mail.gmail.com> From: Alexandre Oliva Organization: Red Hat OS Tools Group Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 22:38:45 -0300 In-Reply-To: <7b69d1470706151752x30aeaaacl305d964b0ae4cc2d@mail.gmail.com> (Scott Preece's message of "Fri\, 15 Jun 2007 19\:52\:22 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.990 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 2698 Lines: 62 On Jun 15, 2007, "Scott Preece" wrote: > On 6/15/07, Alexandre Oliva wrote: >> > The FSF's approval of this distinction (ROM versus replaceable) places >> > the FSF's particular principles over users interests, for no >> > particular reason >> Over *users* interest? How so? > Users benefit from the ability to get software updates, from the > manufacturer, to resolve problems, fix security vulnerabilities, and > provide updated functionality. Which they could have the option to do themselves if the manufacturer didn't prohibit them from doing so. >> > if the manufacturer believes that it cannot legally allow software >> > modification, all the restriction does is force them either to make >> > the software unmodifiable (which advances freedom not at all) or to >> > use software under a different license (which advances freedom not >> > at all). >> Right. >> But if the manufacturer believes that it can legally allow it, and >> wants to be able to install, software modifications, then it must >> decide between giving that up and letting the user do it as well. And >> this is where the users interests may prevail. > Whether it's a legal requirement or a business decision, the result is > the same - neither forcing the manufacturer to make the device > non-updatable nor forcing the manufacturer to use different software > benefits anyone. I agree. But that's an incomplete picture. It's the other part of the picture, that you left out twice, that is the case that is good for the users *and* for the community. > I don't believe that the existence of this clause will lead to more > manufacturers making their devices modifiable - there are too many > other options if they think that non-modifiability is important to > them. > [Note that I *do* think it's perfectly appropriate that authors who > feel that they don't want their work used in such devices should be > able to license them in line with that belief. I just don't think it > has any practical value aside from making them feel better.] They can do that with GPLv3. And those who don't want to stop this can then add a special permission. And then everybody wins. -- Alexandre Oliva http://www.lsd.ic.unicamp.br/~oliva/ FSF Latin America Board Member http://www.fsfla.org/ Red Hat Compiler Engineer aoliva@{redhat.com, gcc.gnu.org} Free Software Evangelist oliva@{lsd.ic.unicamp.br, gnu.org} - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/