Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1759374AbXFQTRD (ORCPT ); Sun, 17 Jun 2007 15:17:03 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1761386AbXFQTQD (ORCPT ); Sun, 17 Jun 2007 15:16:03 -0400 Received: from smtp2.linux-foundation.org ([207.189.120.14]:43289 "EHLO smtp2.linux-foundation.org" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1762224AbXFQTP7 (ORCPT ); Sun, 17 Jun 2007 15:15:59 -0400 Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 12:14:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Linus Torvalds To: Alexandre Oliva cc: Al Viro , Bernd Schmidt , Alan Cox , Ingo Molnar , Daniel Hazelton , Greg KH , debian developer , david@lang.hm, Tarkan Erimer , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Andrew Morton Subject: Re: Dual-Licensing Linux Kernel with GPL V2 and GPL V3 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20070614195517.GA4933@elte.hu> <20070614235004.GA14952@elte.hu> <20070615011012.6c09066e@the-village.bc.nu> <20070615012623.GA25189@elte.hu> <20070615101007.0cbfd078@the-village.bc.nu> <4673CA7C.5040207@t-online.de> <20070616181902.GB21478@ftp.linux.org.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=us-ascii Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 3616 Lines: 92 On Sun, 17 Jun 2007, Alexandre Oliva wrote: > > > What I care about is that the GPLv3 is a _worse_license_ than GPLv2, > > Even though anti-tivoization furthers the quid-pro-quo spirit that you > love about v2, and anti-tivoization is your only objection to v3? You apparently do not understand "quid-pro-quo". Another way of stating it might be "same for same". A third way of stating it is "software for software". No, the romans never said that, but I just did, to make it just more obvious that the whole point is that you are expected to answer IN KIND! I do *not* ask for hardware access. I do *not* ask for money. And the reason I'm harping on "money" is that "money" is something *different* from what I give out. I give out software. I don't expect money in return. Money is *irrelevant*. It's allowed (and certainly much appreciated), but it's not required. See? Can you agree with that? Can you agree that that is actually part of what the whole "open source" spirit is all about (I'll avoid the word "free software", since you have defined it so rigorously personally that it makes no sense any more). Now, replace "money" with "access to the hardware", and read the exact *same* sentences again: And the reason I'm harping on "access to hardware" is that "access to hardware" is something *different* from what I give out. I give out software. I don't expect access to hardware in return. Access to hardware is *irrelevant*. It's allowed (and certainly much appreciated), but it's not required. See? Exact same words. Exact same spirit. Just using "access to hardware" instead of "money". You have been showing that you have a really hard time understanding that very *simple* argument. > > I'd be stupid to select the worse of two licenses, wouldn't I? > > Yes. That's precisely why I don't understand your stance. If you don't understand it after the above, I really can only say: "You are either terminally stupid, or you're not allowing yourself to see an obvious argument, because it destroys your world-view". The latter is very possible. It's a very human thing. It's why apparently a lot of people in the US have a hard time believing in evolution. Are they terminally stupid? Yeah, that is quite possible. But it is also possible that they are of average intelligence, and they just cannot mentally _afford_ to follow the argument - it destroys the silyl stories they heard as children, and requires them to think too hard about the veracity of the source. Linus PS. Since some people talked about the game theory aspects of "tit-for-tat", I'd like to point out that what is usually considered an even *better* strategy than "tit-for-tat" is actually "tit-for-tat with forgiveness". In particular, "tit-for-tat with forgiveness" is considered better when there is ambiguity (like "communication difficulties" - does that sound familiar?) in the encouter. You allow some leeway, and don't always retaliate! So the FSF is DOING THE WRONG THING! They are turning "tit-for-tat" not into "tit-for-tat with forgiveness", but into "tit-for-tat with preemptive strikes". That is a *LOSING* strategy in game theory. So a game theorist could very well argue with good reason to believe he is right that the GPLv3 is actually a worse license even from a purely theoretical standpoint! - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/