Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1765006AbXFSCIa (ORCPT ); Mon, 18 Jun 2007 22:08:30 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1759581AbXFSCIW (ORCPT ); Mon, 18 Jun 2007 22:08:22 -0400 Received: from mx1.redhat.com ([66.187.233.31]:45302 "EHLO mx1.redhat.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1759171AbXFSCIV (ORCPT ); Mon, 18 Jun 2007 22:08:21 -0400 To: Daniel Hazelton Cc: Linus Torvalds , Al Viro , Bernd Schmidt , Alan Cox , Ingo Molnar , Greg KH , debian developer , david@lang.hm, Tarkan Erimer , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Andrew Morton Subject: Re: Dual-Licensing Linux Kernel with GPL V2 and GPL V3 References: <200706181945.16343.dhazelton@enter.net> From: Alexandre Oliva Organization: Red Hat OS Tools Group Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 23:06:57 -0300 In-Reply-To: <200706181945.16343.dhazelton@enter.net> (Daniel Hazelton's message of "Mon\, 18 Jun 2007 19\:45\:16 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.990 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 2855 Lines: 63 On Jun 18, 2007, Daniel Hazelton wrote: > On Monday 18 June 2007 19:31:30 Alexandre Oliva wrote: >> On Jun 18, 2007, Linus Torvalds wrote: >> Actually, just think of how many times you've heard the argument "I >> can't give you the source code for this driver/firmware/etc under the >> GPLv2 because the law says so." > Sorry to tell you this, but anyone that makes a modification to GPLv2 covered > code and distributes that modification is bound by the license. Of course I know that. I'm not the one making those arguments. And then, not all of those pieces of code are indeed moficiations of GPLv2-covered code, so your objection is off target. >> > b) I think you're simply wrong in your math. I think more people >> > like the middle-ground and not-frothing-at-the-mouth spirit of "open >> > source" over the religious dogma of "free software". >> >> It looks like the math you're talking about is in no way related with >> anything I've argued about. You seem to be thinking about the number >> of people who claim to be on the "free software" or "open source" >> sides, but I can't fathom in what way this is related with whether you >> get more or less contributions from users as a consequence of users' >> being permitted to tinker with the free software in their own devices. > "More Developers" (either "Free Software" or "Open Source") == "More > Contributions" > That equation is very simple to understand - claiming its wrong is impossible. YES! Thank you! This is exactly the point I'm trying to make. Now can you please explain this to Linus in terms that his brain won't dismiss as "coming from a fundamentalist"? > Apparently because you can't admit that a good reason *IS* a good reason when > it conflicts with your belief that the FSF is correct. No, seriously. Linus is disputing the equation above, dismissing my various attempts to show it to him, whenever it appears in teh context of tivoization, apparently because it doesn't match his moral belief that tivoization ought to be permitted on his moral grounds. > PS: I know I've said I'm done with this conversation, but this is like a bad > habit. I just couldn't help myself. You've helped me a lot while at that. Thanks! I hope this helps others fundamentalist anti-fundamentalists :-) see reason too. -- Alexandre Oliva http://www.lsd.ic.unicamp.br/~oliva/ FSF Latin America Board Member http://www.fsfla.org/ Red Hat Compiler Engineer aoliva@{redhat.com, gcc.gnu.org} Free Software Evangelist oliva@{lsd.ic.unicamp.br, gnu.org} - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/