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Date:   Thu, 15 Sep 2022 12:14:27 -0700
From:   "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@kernel.org>
To:     Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>
Cc:     Joel Fernandes <joel@joelfernandes.org>,
        Frederic Weisbecker <fweisbec@gmail.com>,
        Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
        linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Boqun Feng <boqun.feng@gmail.com>,
        "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@rjwysocki.net>
Subject: Re: RCU vs NOHZ
Message-ID: <20220915191427.GC246308@paulmck-ThinkPad-P17-Gen-1>
Reply-To: paulmck@kernel.org
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On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 08:50:44PM +0200, Peter Zijlstra wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 09:06:00AM -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> > On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 10:39:12AM +0200, Peter Zijlstra wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > After watching Joel's talk about RCU and idle ticks I was wondering
> > > about why RCU doesn't have NOHZ hooks -- that is regular NOHZ, not the
> > > NOHZ_FULL stuff.
> > 
> > It actually does, but they have recently moved into the context-tracking
> > code, courtesy of Frederic's recent patch series.
> 
> afair that's idle and that is not nohz.

For nohz_full CPUs, it does both.

> > > These deep idle states are only feasible during NOHZ idle, and the NOHZ
> > > path is already relatively expensive (which is offset by then mostly
> > > staying idle for a long while).
> > > 
> > > Specifically my thinking was that when a CPU goes NOHZ it can splice
> > > it's callback list onto a global list (cmpxchg), and then the
> > > jiffy-updater CPU can look at and consume this global list (xchg).
> > > 
> > > Before you say... but globals suck (they do), NOHZ already has a fair
> > > amount of global state, and as said before, it's offset by the CPU then
> > > staying idle for a fair while. If there is heavy contention on the NOHZ
> > > data, the idle governor is doing a bad job by selecting deep idle states
> > > whilst we're not actually idle for long.
> > > 
> > > The above would remove the reason for RCU to inhibit NOHZ.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Additionally; when the very last CPU goes idle (I think we know this
> > > somewhere, but I can't reaily remember where) we can insta-advance the
> > > QS machinery and run the callbacks before going (NOHZ) idle.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Is there a reason this couldn't work? To me this seems like a much
> > > simpler solution than the whole rcu-cb thing.
> > 
> > To restate Joel's reply a bit...
> > 
> > Maybe.
> > 
> > Except that we need rcu_nocbs anyway for low latency and HPC applications.
> > Given that we have it, and given that it totally eliminates RCU-induced
> > idle ticks, how would it help to add cmpxchg-based global offloading?
> 
> Because that nocb stuff isn't default enabled?

Last I checked, both RHEL and Fedora were built with CONFIG_RCU_NOCB_CPU=y.
And I checked Fedora just now.

Or am I missing your point?

							Thanx, Paul