Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org designates 2620:137:e000::1:20 as permitted sender) client-ip=2620:137:e000::1:20;
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <20220609150851.23084-1-max.oss.09@gmail.com> <CACRpkdZ0=8poNcFaCYSmMyg1GBfkHLAr3QvvzFKweLPr3UM2vg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEHkU3Wya0nRhaBDisAQBm5kf=2YcdJYzz2jKiL___mZQzL_Sw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPDyKFrEYCx3L94gz27Pk_=HdwA4GNGE9Lvz+HGUW0P7Qt-mBw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20220726160337.GA41736@francesco-nb.int.toradex.com> <CAPDyKFqGFjywJ-Vmmn9=-NOzJX=24mH9A03H9djS=nJotKWK8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20220728112146.GA97654@francesco-nb.int.toradex.com> <CAPDyKFqtCxrjALeCmhuqQ2VmmUHhi-DjXO30uHChTPFeDbp+JQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20220909142247.GA238001@francesco-nb.int.toradex.com> <CAPDyKFrwpz=gi3iY5YsO6k4o33eLQRp-wXvBx3nQ0q=G9YrqHA@mail.gmail.com>
 <70ee4f8e-7529-307e-656c-2a65d0187af6@linaro.org>
In-Reply-To: <70ee4f8e-7529-307e-656c-2a65d0187af6@linaro.org>
From:   Ulf Hansson <ulf.hansson@linaro.org>
Date:   Mon, 26 Sep 2022 12:12:30 +0200
Message-ID: <CAPDyKFoyNWZvT+QPdX4sQuS3DL8mepfnLraHLusMi9K8MOfLgg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v1 0/5] power: domain: Add driver for a PM domain provider
 which controls
To:     Krzysztof Kozlowski <krzysztof.kozlowski@linaro.org>
Cc:     Francesco Dolcini <francesco.dolcini@toradex.com>,
        Mark Brown <broonie@kernel.org>,
        Krzysztof Kozlowski <krzysztof.kozlowski+dt@linaro.org>,
        Robin Murphy <robin.murphy@arm.com>,
        Max Krummenacher <max.oss.09@gmail.com>,
        Linus Walleij <linus.walleij@linaro.org>,
        Max Krummenacher <max.krummenacher@toradex.com>,
        Linux PM list <linux-pm@vger.kernel.org>,
        "Rafael J . Wysocki" <rafael@kernel.org>,
        Kevin Hilman <khilman@kernel.org>,
        Andrejs Cainikovs <andrejs.cainikovs@toradex.com>,
        Biju Das <biju.das.jz@bp.renesas.com>,
        Bjorn Andersson <bjorn.andersson@linaro.org>,
        Catalin Marinas <catalin.marinas@arm.com>,
        Dmitry Baryshkov <dmitry.baryshkov@linaro.org>,
        Fabio Estevam <festevam@gmail.com>,
        Geert Uytterhoeven <geert+renesas@glider.be>,
        Marcel Ziswiler <marcel.ziswiler@toradex.com>,
        NXP Linux Team <linux-imx@nxp.com>,
        Pengutronix Kernel Team <kernel@pengutronix.de>,
        Rob Herring <robh+dt@kernel.org>,
        Sascha Hauer <s.hauer@pengutronix.de>,
        Shawn Guo <shawnguo@kernel.org>, Vinod Koul <vkoul@kernel.org>,
        Will Deacon <will@kernel.org>,
        "open list:OPEN FIRMWARE AND FLATTENED DEVICE TREE BINDINGS" 
        <devicetree@vger.kernel.org>,
        Linux ARM <linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org>,
        Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Precedence: bulk

On Fri, 23 Sept 2022 at 20:00, Krzysztof Kozlowski
<krzysztof.kozlowski@linaro.org> wrote:
>
> On 22/09/2022 15:49, Ulf Hansson wrote:
> > On Fri, 9 Sept 2022 at 16:22, Francesco Dolcini
> > <francesco.dolcini@toradex.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello Ulf,
> >>
> >> On Fri, Aug 26, 2022 at 03:50:46PM +0200, Ulf Hansson wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 28 Jul 2022 at 13:21, Francesco Dolcini
> >>> <francesco.dolcini@toradex.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 11:37:07AM +0200, Ulf Hansson wrote:
> >>>>> On Tue, 26 Jul 2022 at 18:03, Francesco Dolcini
> >>>>> <francesco.dolcini@toradex.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hello Ulf and everybody,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2022 at 01:43:28PM +0200, Ulf Hansson wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Thu, 23 Jun 2022 at 18:14, Max Krummenacher <max.oss.09@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> So our plan is to explicitly handle a (shared) regulator in every
> >>>>>>>> driver involved, adding that regulator capability for drivers not
> >>>>>>>> already having one.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Please don't! I have recently rejected a similar approach for Tegra
> >>>>>>> platforms, which now have been converted into using the power domain
> >>>>>>> approach.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Just to quickly re-iterate how our hardware design looks like, we do
> >>>>>> have a single gpio that control the power of a whole board area that is
> >>>>>> supposed to be powered-off in suspend mode, this area could contains
> >>>>>> devices that have a proper Linux driver and some passive driver-less
> >>>>>> components (e.g. level shifter) - the exact mix varies.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Our proposal in this series was to model this as a power domain that
> >>>>>> could be controlled with a regulator. Krzysztof, Robin and others
> >>>>>> clearly argued against this idea.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Well, historically we haven't modelled these kinds of power-rails
> >>>>> other than through power-domains. And this is exactly what genpd and
> >>>>> PM domains in Linux are there to help us with.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Moreover, on another SoC/platform, maybe the power-rails are deployed
> >>>>> differently and maybe those have the ability to scale performance too.
> >>>>> Then it doesn't really fit well with the regulator model anymore.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If we want to continue to keep drivers portable, I don't see any
> >>>>> better option than continuing to model these power-rails as
> >>>>> power-domains.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The other approach would be to have a single regulator shared with the
> >>>>>> multiple devices we have there (still not clear how that would work in
> >>>>>> case we have only driver-less passive components). This is just a
> >>>>>> device-tree matter, maybe we would need to add support for a supply to
> >>>>>> some device drivers.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Honestly my conclusion from this discussion is that the only viable
> >>>>>> option is this second one, do I miss something?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> No thanks!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Well, unless you can convince me there are benefits to this approach
> >>>>> over the power-domain approach.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm fine with our current power-domain proposal here, I do not need to
> >>>> convince you, I have the other problem to convince someone to merge
> >>>> it :-)
> >>>>
> >>>> Maybe Krzysztof, Robin or Mark can comment again after you explained
> >>>> your view on this topic.
> >>>
> >>> To move things forward, I suggest you re-start with the power domain approach.
> >>>
> >>> Moreover, to avoid any churns, just implement it as another new SoC
> >>> specific genpd provider and let the provider deal with the regulator.
> >> I'm sorry, but I was not able to understand what you mean, can you
> >> provide some additional hint on the topic? Some reference driver we can
> >> look at?
> >
> > Typically, "git grep pm_genpd_init" will find genpd providers.
> >
> > There are a couple of examples where a regulator (among other things)
> > is being controlled from the genpd's ->power_on|off() callbacks, such
> > as:
> >
> > drivers/soc/mediatek/mtk-pm-domains.c
> > drivers/soc/imx/gpc.c
> >
> >>
> >> The driver we implemented and proposed with this patch is just
> >> connecting a power-domain to a regulator, it's something at the board
> >> level, not at the SoC one.
> >> We do not have a (existing) SoC driver were we could add the power
> >> domain provider as an additional functionality.
> >
> > Right, so you need to add a new SoC/platform driver for this.
> >
> >>
> >>> In this way, you don't need to invent any new types of DT bindings,
> >>> but can re-use existing ones.
> >> The only new binding would be a new "compatible" to have a place to
> >> tie the regulator instance used in the device tree, but I do not think
> >> that this is an issue at all.
> >
> > Yes, I agree.
> >
> >>
> >> The main concern that was raised on this topic was that we have to
> >> somehow link the power-domain to the specific peripherals (the power
> >> domain consumer) in the device tree.
> >
> > Yes, that is needed. Although, I don't see how that is a concern?
> >
> > We already have the valid bindings to use for this, see more below.
> >
> >>
> >> Adding the power-domain property there will trigger validation errors
> >> unless we do explicitly add the power-domains to the schema for each
> >> peripheral we need this. To me this does not really work, but maybe I'm
> >> not understanding something.
> >>
> >> This is what Rob wrote on the topic [1]:
> >>   > No. For 'power-domains' bindings have to define how many there are and
> >>   > what each one is.
> >>
> >> Just as an example from patch [2]:
> >>
> >>   can1: can@0 {
> >>     compatible = "microchip,mcp251xfd";
> >>     power-domains = <&pd_sleep_moci>;
> >>   };
> >>
> >> leads to:
> >>
> >>   imx8mm-verdin-nonwifi-dahlia.dtb: can@0: 'power-domains' does not match any of the regexes: 'pinctrl-[0-9]+'
> >>           From schema: .../bindings/net/can/microchip,mcp251xfd.yaml
> >
> > I think it should be fine to just add the below line to the DT
> > bindings, for each peripheral device to fix the above problem.
> >
> > power-domains: true
>
> Again, as Rob said, no, because it must be strictly defined. So for
> example: "maxItems: 1" for simple cases. But what if device is then part
> of two power domains?
>
> >
> > That should be okay, right?
>
> Adding it to each peripheral scales poorly. Especially that literally
> any device can be part of such power domain.

Right.

>
> If we are going with power domain approach, then it should be applicable
> basically to every device or to every device of some class (e.g. I2C,
> SPI). This means it should be added to respective core schema in
> dtschema repo, in a way it does not interfere with other power-domains
> properties (existing ones).

Isn't that already taken care of [1]?

If there is more than one power domain per device, perhaps we may need
to extend it with a more strict binding? But, that doesn't seem to be
the case here - and if it turns out to be needed later on, we can
always extend the bindings, no?

Note also that we already have DT bindings specifying "power-domains:
true" to deal with the above. Isn't that what we want?

>
>
> Best regards,
> Krzysztof
>

Kind regards
Uffe

[1]
https://github.com/devicetree-org/dt-schema/blob/main/dtschema/schemas/power-domain/power-domain-consumer.yaml