Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org designates 2620:137:e000::1:20 as permitted sender) client-ip=2620:137:e000::1:20;
Date:   Thu, 29 Sep 2022 18:18:32 +0200
From:   Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>
To:     "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@kernel.org>
Cc:     Joel Fernandes <joel@joelfernandes.org>,
        Frederic Weisbecker <fweisbec@gmail.com>,
        Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
        linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Boqun Feng <boqun.feng@gmail.com>,
        "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@rjwysocki.net>
Subject: Re: RCU vs NOHZ
Message-ID: <YzXFWEL52MRp2s5j@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net>
References: <YyLksEr05QTNo05Q@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net>
 <20220915160600.GA246308@paulmck-ThinkPad-P17-Gen-1>
 <YyN0BKEoDbe4hcIl@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net>
 <20220915191427.GC246308@paulmck-ThinkPad-P17-Gen-1>
 <YyOnilnwnLKA9ghN@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net>
 <20220916075817.GE246308@paulmck-ThinkPad-P17-Gen-1>
 <YyQ/zn54D1uoaIc1@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net>
 <20220917142508.GF246308@paulmck-ThinkPad-P17-Gen-1>
 <YzV5vqoLInptafJm@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net>
 <20220929152044.GE4196@paulmck-ThinkPad-P17-Gen-1>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <20220929152044.GE4196@paulmck-ThinkPad-P17-Gen-1>
Precedence: bulk

On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 08:20:44AM -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:

> > To recap; we want the CPU to go into deeper idle states, no?
> > 
> > RCU can currently inhibit this by having callbacks pending for this CPU
> > -- in this case RCU inhibits NOHZ-IDLE and deep power states are not
> > selected or less effective.
> > 
> > Now, deep idle states actually purge the caches, so cache locality
> > cannot be an argument to keep the callbacks local.
> > 
> > We know when we're doing deep idle we stop the tick.
> > 
> > So why not, when stopping the tick, move the RCU pending crud elsewhere
> > and let the CPU get on with going idle instead of inhibiting the
> > stopping of the tick and wrecking deep idle?
> 
> Because doing so in the past has cost more energy than is saved.

How has this been tried; and why did the energy cost go up? Is this
because the offload thread ends up waking up the CPU we just put to
sleep?

By default I think the offload stuff just doesn't work well for
!NOHZ_FULL situations; that is, NOHZ_FULL is the only case where there
are housekeeper CPUs that take care of the offload threads.

Hence my initial suggestion to force the pending work into the jiffy
owner CPU.