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Subject: Re: Planned changes for bugzilla.kernel.org to reduce the "Bugzilla
 blues"
From:   Slade Watkins <srw@sladewatkins.net>
In-Reply-To: <YzmBjgXq9geMnL1B@mit.edu>
Date:   Sun, 2 Oct 2022 09:25:01 -0400
Cc:     "Artem S. Tashkinov" <aros@gmx.com>,
        Thorsten Leemhuis <linux@leemhuis.info>,
        Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
        Konstantin Ryabitsev <konstantin@linuxfoundation.org>,
        workflows@vger.kernel.org, LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
        Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
        "regressions@lists.linux.dev" <regressions@lists.linux.dev>,
        ksummit@lists.linux.dev
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To:     Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu>
Precedence: bulk

Hello,

> On Oct 2, 2022, at 8:18 AM, Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> wrote:
>=20
> On Sat, Oct 01, 2022 at 02:58:04PM +0000, Artem S. Tashkinov wrote:
>>=20
>> My expectations are actually quite low:
>>=20
>> * A central place to collect bugs (yeah, bugzilla)
>> * Proper up to date components (they don't change too often, so =
there's
>> not a lot of work to be done - you can refresh them probably every =
12-24
>> months and it's gonna be totally OK)
>> * An ability to CC the relevant people/mailing lists (this is the =
only
>> serious missing feature)
>>=20
>> That's it. It's a billion times better than random emails sent to =
random
>> mailing lists. Signing up once is easier that to keep track of whom =
and
>> where you've emailed or not. And of course it's a ton lot easier to =
find
>> the existing bug reports.
>=20
> First of all, some of the components do CC the relevant mailing lists
> automatically.  And this is the part of Bugzilla which is hand-hacked
> and has no, zero, nada support upstream.  I'll defer to Konstantin
> about how easy it is to keep that working.
>=20
> Secondly, not everyone is happy with getting an e-mail message sent to
> a mailing list that has a lot of bugzilla metadata associated with it,
> and depending on how they respond, the response might not make it back
> to bugzilla.

+1.=20

Personally, I prefer Bugzilla _over_ getting e-mail. But that=E2=80=99s =
just my opinion.

>> Bugzilla as it is works nearly perfectly. We have a number of =
developers
>> who don't want to touch it or get emails from it - it's their right.
>> However it would be madness to take it from users. That will make =
filing
>> and following up on bug reports an absolutely poor experience for
>> absolute most users.
>=20
> At the moment, developers aren't following up on the bug reports.
> There is some debate as to why.  Is it because users who can't figure
> out how to send e-mail, and who send web-form based e-mails send low
> quality bug reports that can't be easily responded to unless someone
> is paid $$$ and/or has the patience of a saint?  Is it because
> components aren't being gatewayed to mailing lists?

My hope is that we find a solution that *encourages* developers to =
follow-up on bug reports. So far, we=E2=80=99ve just gone back and forth =
on this and gotten nowhere.

>=20
> And if we force developers to get Bugzilla spam whether they want it
> not, and they said, "absolutely not", is it there right to have the
> mailing list gateway disabled --- and if so, what does that do to the
> user experience?  Thats basically the situation we have right now.

Yep, agreed.

-srw