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Date:   Mon, 3 Oct 2022 00:11:07 +0300
From:   Laurent Pinchart <laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com>
To:     "Artem S. Tashkinov" <aros@gmx.com>
Cc:     Slade Watkins <srw@sladewatkins.net>,
        Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu>,
        Thorsten Leemhuis <linux@leemhuis.info>,
        Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
        Konstantin Ryabitsev <konstantin@linuxfoundation.org>,
        workflows@vger.kernel.org, LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
        Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
        "regressions@lists.linux.dev" <regressions@lists.linux.dev>,
        ksummit@lists.linux.dev,
        Mario Limonciello <mario.limonciello@amd.com>
Subject: Re: Planned changes for bugzilla.kernel.org to reduce the "Bugzilla
 blues"
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On Sun, Oct 02, 2022 at 07:37:38PM +0000, Artem S. Tashkinov wrote:
> On 10/2/22 14:48, Slade Watkins wrote:
> >> On Oct 2, 2022, at 8:49 AM, Artem S. Tashkinov <aros@gmx.com> wrote:
> >> As I've said many times already: bugzilla must be an opt-out, not opt-in
> >> experience/option.
> >>
> >> Let's subscribe the past six months of developers using git commits and
> >> if someone doesn't like getting emails they go to the website and
> >> unsubscribe _once_ which takes a minute. This is a non-issue I've no
> >> clue why we're dwelling on it.
> >
> > I disagree with this in its *entirety* and I really don’t think it
> > has any chance of moving forward.
> >
> > If this were to happen (and it won’t!) then developers will just
> > send the emails to spam or some other filter because they didn’t
> > _consent_ to being subscribed to it. And in my opinion, they’d be
> > justified in doing that.
> 
> It was a proposal from no one, i.e. me.
> 
> The other option will be what? To _mass email_ everyone asking them to
> subscribe to bugzilla? Do you know what will happen? 2/3 of relevant
> people will forget about/neglect this email, they will never sign up
> even if they are willing to and we'll end up with a disfunction bugzilla
> again.
> 
> It feels to me we are back to:
> 
> "Users are expected to break their necks finding random mailing lists
> and sending their reports to them expecting feedback".
> 
> 95% of users will just give up.
> 
> 4.95% of users will not receive any feedback: the developer has been
> busy with their work, life, past time, etc - "Sorry, missed your email".
> 
> Maybe 0.05% bug reports will be actually dealt with.
> 
> Again this does not work for serious collaborations requiring multiple
> people over extended periods of time. It absolutely sucks in terms of
> filling in the missing details.
> 
> I begin to sound like a broken record repeating what we've already
> discussed to death a dozen times.
> 
> Let's deprecate bugzilla and just say "f it". That's what I hear. Great!
> 
> No responsibility, no bug reports, no fixes, welcome regressions.
> 
> I concur. This discussion has been a complete waste of time.

Do you realize how insulting this is, for all the developers and
maintainers who spend lots of their free time doing their best ? It's
all very nice to complain and rant, but if you want things to move
forward, lead the effort and work on it.

-- 
Regards,

Laurent Pinchart